From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:41:03 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210916194103.GK26820@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <202109161934.18GJYFsl881498@darkstar.fourwinds.com>
On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:34:15PM -0700, Jon Steinhart wrote:
> As I've said before, I'm having difficulty distinguishing the "full stack"
> in full stack programming from a compost heap. It's not OK to me from a
> security, safety, and reliability perspective to build on a rotting
> foundation.
Amen.
> It's my opinion that the whole container thing sort of started as a "we
> can't secure the underlying system so we'll build something secure on top"
> combined with "it's no fun to fix the unnecessary incompatible mess among
> virtually identical systems that we've made so we'll build a new fix-it
> layer" ideologies. How long until problems are found with containers
> it's decided that the way to fix it is to build "safe deposit boxes" that
> run in container? Is there ever an end in sight?
I think it is that the newer kids are less willing to understand stuff.
So they build something on top that they understand. I agree that they
will hit problems and likely build "safe deposit boxes" because the
containers are "too complex".
Oh, and get off my lawn!
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-16 19:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-01 21:58 Dan Cross
2021-09-02 8:42 ` Tony Finch
2021-09-03 0:19 ` John Cowan
2021-09-03 3:24 ` Douglas McIlroy
2021-09-03 13:21 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-08 11:14 ` Tony Finch
2021-09-16 19:27 ` Dan Cross
2021-09-17 0:34 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 0:44 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 17:07 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 1:33 ` Dan Cross
2021-09-02 15:41 ` Kevin Bowling
2021-09-02 20:12 ` Marshall Conover
2021-09-03 15:56 ` Warner Losh
2021-09-03 17:10 ` Adam Thornton
2021-09-03 17:28 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-03 17:42 ` John Floren
2021-09-03 19:02 ` Lawrence Stewart
2021-09-03 19:11 ` Clem Cole
2021-09-03 17:46 ` [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware [ really a comment on SoCs ] Jon Steinhart
2021-09-16 18:38 ` [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe) Dan Cross
2021-09-16 19:34 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-16 19:41 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2021-09-16 23:14 ` Marshall Conover
2021-09-16 23:44 ` Rob Pike
2021-09-17 0:37 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 1:38 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 3:54 ` John Cowan
2021-09-16 23:45 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 0:06 ` Al Kossow
2021-09-17 4:06 ` John Cowan
2021-09-17 4:18 ` Al Kossow
2021-09-17 0:32 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-16 23:54 ` David Arnold
2021-09-17 1:10 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 1:28 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 1:40 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 2:04 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 2:21 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 2:48 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 17:39 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 17:51 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 18:07 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 21:03 ` Derek Fawcus
2021-09-17 22:11 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-19 4:05 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 18:34 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 18:56 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 19:16 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 19:35 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 15:56 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 18:24 ` ron minnich
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20210916194103.GK26820@mcvoy.com \
--to=lm@mcvoy.com \
--cc=jon@fourwinds.com \
--cc=tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).