From: Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com>
To: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] roff(7) [ and other related stuff ]
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 17:48:38 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <202201020148.2021mcbd1620481@darkstar.fourwinds.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220102012033.GB7055@mcvoy.com>
Larry McVoy writes:
> On Sat, Jan 01, 2022 at 08:04:58PM -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 7:13 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
> > > My big complaint with stuff like Rust, or even Go (sorry Rob), is that they
> > > picked a different syntax. Why not just use C syntax and extend it to do
> > > what you want? Why must every project redo everything.
> >
> > Why use C syntax? What was wrong with Fortran, Lisp, or Cobol syntax,
> > extended to do what you wanted?
>
> I'm almost speechless. My progression was Basic, Pascal, C (and later
> Fortran, Lisp, no Cobol, I did an Ada Compiler so Ada I guess). Then
> on to awk, perl, tcl, I tried to like C++ but couldn't, tried to like
> Rust, Go, D, and couldn't.
>
> If you think any of those other languages remotely approach the elegance
> of C, I just don't know what to say.
>
> C is beautiful, you look at the code and you can see what the hardware
> will be doing but it isn't assembler. It's what assembler wished it
> could be. It's the right mix of high enough that it works over all
> architectures and low enough that you see the hardware.
>
> You don't see the hardware with any of the other languages you listed.
I look at it slightly differently as the person who opened this particular
can of worms.
I'm not saying that the world should be fixed in stone; for example that
there should never be another language because we already have one.
I have trouble imagining how the features of C could be added to Fortran,
Lisp, or Cobol in a reasonably compatible manner. And I have no issue
with C not being an extension of an existing language even though it uses
some of the features of other languages; to me C was the first non-clunky
programming language. While I find C++ ugly, at least it uses C syntax
where possible making it a reasonable transition for programmers.
Going back to the original *roff discussion, I would have preferred to see
a ".2D" request for *roff that added two-dimensional formatting.
Guess what I'm saying is that I'm against change for the sake of change;
I'm not against innovation.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-01-02 1:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-31 15:47 [TUHS] roff(7) Douglas McIlroy
2021-12-31 23:07 ` George Michaelson
2021-12-31 23:40 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-01 0:56 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-01 3:15 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-10 19:00 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-10 20:21 ` Jon Forrest
2022-01-11 22:48 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-11 23:18 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 1:19 ` Dave Horsfall
2022-01-12 1:46 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:12 ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-12 15:49 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 16:22 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 0:06 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-12 1:48 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 0:29 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-12 1:53 ` Blake McBride
[not found] ` <E3CC4B8A-4E88-4339-A4D3-4ED26BA80620@gmail.com>
2022-01-12 0:44 ` Jon Forrest
2022-01-12 2:00 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:10 ` David Arnold
2022-01-12 2:26 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 19:54 ` John Cowan
2022-01-13 10:13 ` Thomas Paulsen
2022-01-13 20:00 ` John Cowan
2022-01-10 20:33 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-10 20:37 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-10 21:04 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-10 21:48 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-11 2:25 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-11 2:47 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-22 2:34 ` [TUHS] troff environments, traps, and diversions (was: TeX and groff) Branden Robinson
2022-01-22 16:02 ` Douglas McIlroy
2022-01-23 19:45 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-23 22:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 1:52 ` [TUHS] Recognizing TeX (was: TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 1:19 ` [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Mary Ann Horton
2022-01-12 2:03 ` Blake McBride
2022-01-12 2:10 ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-12 3:44 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 16:48 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-01-10 20:46 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-01-11 1:59 ` [TUHS] Demise of " Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-11 2:13 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2022-01-11 2:42 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 5:12 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-11 5:59 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-11 8:57 ` arnold
2022-01-11 20:15 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:22 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 20:26 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:36 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 20:41 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 20:49 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 21:03 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-11 8:50 ` arnold
2022-01-11 14:00 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 23:22 ` [TUHS] troff or groff? (was: Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7))) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 23:29 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-01-12 23:32 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-11 15:47 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) Clem Cole
2022-01-11 16:55 ` Richard Salz
2022-01-11 18:49 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 19:20 ` John Cowan
2022-01-11 20:06 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 23:57 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-12 0:03 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-12 8:54 ` arnold
2022-01-12 15:17 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 16:33 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 18:06 ` [TUHS] *roff history as told to GNU G. Branden Robinson
2022-01-12 18:34 ` Dan Halbert
2022-01-12 22:48 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 23:27 ` Charles H. Sauer
2022-01-13 0:35 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 20:01 ` Dan Cross
2022-01-12 22:32 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-13 2:38 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-13 7:42 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2022-01-13 13:47 ` John Labovitz
2022-01-12 8:48 ` [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) arnold
2022-01-12 15:51 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-12 15:57 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-12 15:56 ` Clem Cole
2022-01-11 3:22 ` Adam Thornton
2022-01-12 0:32 ` Nemo Nusquam
2022-01-01 20:00 ` [TUHS] roff(7) [ and other related stuff ] Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 0:12 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 1:04 ` John Cowan
2022-01-02 1:20 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 1:47 ` Steve Nickolas
2022-01-02 2:12 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-02 3:56 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-01-02 1:48 ` Jon Steinhart [this message]
2022-01-02 3:04 ` John Cowan
2022-01-02 3:30 ` Warner Losh
2022-01-01 1:11 ` [TUHS] roff(7) Phil Budne
2022-01-01 1:17 ` Chris Torek
2022-01-01 3:06 ` Larry McVoy
2022-01-01 3:34 ` George Michaelson
2022-01-05 21:15 ` Tony Finch
2022-01-02 4:02 [TUHS] roff(7) [ and other related stuff ] Noel Chiappa
2022-01-02 10:46 ` markus schnalke
2022-01-02 4:10 Douglas McIlroy
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