From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 31067 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2022 08:57:33 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 11 Jan 2022 08:57:33 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 73CD19C6F2; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:57:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84EE9C0CA; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:57:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 757D29C0CA; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:57:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 067379C0BE for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:57:15 +1000 (AEST) X-Envelope-From: arnold@skeeve.com Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 20B8vAvX020862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:57:11 -0700 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 20B8v9vB020861; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:57:09 -0700 From: arnold@skeeve.com Message-Id: <202201110857.20B8v9vB020861@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: arnold set sender to arnold@skeeve.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:57:09 -0700 To: lm@mcvoy.com, grog@lemis.com References: <20211231234039.GU31637@mcvoy.com> <20220101005605.GL75481@eureka.lemis.com> <20220101031511.GB8135@mcvoy.com> <20220111015901.GE25103@eureka.lemis.com> <4409b91cd794867d@orthanc.ca> <20220111024218.GE3441@mcvoy.com> <20220111051247.GC61872@eureka.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20220111051247.GC61872@eureka.lemis.com> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] Demise of TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org, douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: > But the macros they (also, primarily, Dale Dougherty) > described there are the basis for the macros they used at ORA when I > started writing for them in 1993. Some time round the turn of the > millennium they then migrated to DocBook, at least for the author > interface. I think that they had some magic to then convert it to > groff. So I don't think it was "too late"; the DocBook conversion > suggests that the authors didn't like groff, though I thought that the > conversion was a retrograde step. The DocBook conversion make it easy for them to generate HTML so that books could be put on CD and browsed with a web browser. I believe that was the main motivation. I wrote the second edition of "sed & awk" in troff and then they "converted" it to DocBook (with said backend that went back to troff for producing print). The conversion to DocBook was a disaster, such that I threatened to cancel doing the book. A lot of manual work later, the book came out OK, but boy was it painful. That backend was still in use ~ 2004 when I did "Unix In A Nutshell" and "Classic Shell Scripting" but they have moved on since then. Arnold P.S. Eric Raymond's love of DocBook not withstanding, it's a miserable markup language to have to work in.