From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4447 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2022 22:30:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Jun 2022 22:30:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7A3421D5; Sat, 4 Jun 2022 08:30:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38F36421D3 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2022 08:30:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id ADAAB35E1C0; Fri, 3 Jun 2022 15:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 15:30:14 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo Message-ID: <20220603223014.GS10240@mcvoy.com> References: <20220603202330.f4spdxyn34uiyy5v@illithid> <20220603213215.GO10240@mcvoy.com> <20220603214032.GQ10240@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: JLIDNIURNHIB4LY44NMUDO3BLNKVEOL2 X-Message-ID-Hash: JLIDNIURNHIB4LY44NMUDO3BLNKVEOL2 X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Sat, Jun 04, 2022 at 12:16:49AM +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote: > Larry McVoy writes: > > >> I do not agree. Linux won because BSD was embroiled in litigation. > > > > Like I said, we experienced that differently. In my opinion, people lean > > on the litigation excuse when they don't want to admit that *BSD was not > > a good way to do operating system development. > > What were the differences? The BSD projects were: > > - 386bsd: run by Jolitz, with no input from anyone else > - NetBSD: forked from 386bsd, run by Chris de Metriou as a > cooperative effort between a host of indviduals (me included) > - FreeBSD: forked from NetBSD almost immediately, by a group of > contributors who felt that performance and device support on the Intel > platform was more important than maintaining hardware portability > - OpenBSD: forked from NetBSD after de Raadt established a kind of > record by being kicked off both the NetBSD and FreeBSD mailing lists. > > I'm open to contradicting arguments, but I do feel that the BSD platform > was a much better starting point back then, and ought to have won - but > Linux, while inferior, was available and non-threatening. Dude, I was there. Jolitz used to work for me at Sun, Theo's Sun 4/470 was given to him by me, I know most of the players. I agree BSD was a better starting point if there was one BSD. The problem is there was {386,Net,Free,Open,DragonFly}BSD where there should have just been "BSD". One, not a bunch. Where do you think Linux would be if there was {A,B,C,D,E,F,G}Linux? There is one kernel. One and only one. With everyone working on that one kernel. If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you. Are you seriously going to take the position that BSD is better off because it has all these variants and replicated effort? Because if you are, this conversation is over, at least from my point of view.