From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24153 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2022 02:36:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Jun 2022 02:36:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D52F40CB3; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 12:36:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9246840CB2 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 12:36:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 3B84A35E921; Sun, 5 Jun 2022 19:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2022 19:36:14 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Dan Cross Message-ID: <20220606023614.GJ10240@mcvoy.com> References: <20220603214032.GQ10240@mcvoy.com> <20220603223014.GS10240@mcvoy.com> <20220603234822.GV10240@mcvoy.com> <20220604010543.GZ10240@mcvoy.com> <20220606011511.GG10240@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: U2CVLP72DNCT4PXJDZKCOXKHMZ7SWILG X-Message-ID-Hash: U2CVLP72DNCT4PXJDZKCOXKHMZ7SWILG X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Sun, Jun 05, 2022 at 09:40:44PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 9:15 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > Today's FreeBSD install process is like a trip back to 1980. It is > > not pleasant. The Linux install process 15 years ago was a better > > experience than Windows install process (if you've done the windows > > install then get some ethernet dongle that windows recognizes so you can > > connect to the internet, then do the driver search and install, install, > > install all the drivers - contrast that with Linux where it just has 99% > > of the drivers in the kernel). > > But every distribution has its own installer, and they vary wildly. Indeed they do. I'd put RedHat as the best of the best, but truth be told, Debian is not bad, it's more basic but it works. I disagree about the BSDs being similar to Linux, go partition a disk with FreeBSD and then compare that to Linux. It's night and day. The Linux stuff works and is obvious, the FreeBSD stuff only makes sense if you have been using that forever, it's awful if you are a newbie. And I say that as a guy who went through Sun's stuff, it was similar to FreeBSD but a bit better. Linux really did just make stuff work. Is it elegant like v7 was, absolutely not. Does it handle a ton of stuff that nobody could imagine in the v7 days? Absolutely yes. Is it more complex than it should be? I dunno, it is more complex than I like but I'm an old graybeard. I really wanted coarse graine locking with what Clem and crew did with the cluster approach. The vproc stuff. I loved that and I think that is the knee of the curve, scale up a bit on SMP but then cluster to scale up more.