From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10078 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2022 13:41:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Jun 2022 13:41:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C5F40C9A; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 23:41:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAC7A40C99 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 23:41:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 816DE35E0F0; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 06:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 06:41:01 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Dan Cross Message-ID: <20220606134101.GB15041@mcvoy.com> References: <20220603223014.GS10240@mcvoy.com> <20220603234822.GV10240@mcvoy.com> <20220604010543.GZ10240@mcvoy.com> <20220606011511.GG10240@mcvoy.com> <20220606023614.GJ10240@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: O2QYIVDQGOWHZ2UITKY3EBGV4KRRKQLR X-Message-ID-Hash: O2QYIVDQGOWHZ2UITKY3EBGV4KRRKQLR X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, Jun 06, 2022 at 08:43:01AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 10:36 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > I disagree about the BSDs being similar to Linux, go partition a > > disk with FreeBSD and then compare that to Linux. It's night and day. > > The Linux stuff works and is obvious, the FreeBSD stuff only makes sense > > if you have been using that forever, it's awful if you are a newbie. > > But define "Linux" here. Do you mean RedHat, specifically? Because > with Arch, you've got to manually run `fdisk` or `gdisk` or whatever, and > add partitions in that tool, set their type manually, etc, then manually > create the filesystems, install the boot loader and configure it. The steps > aren't necessarily hard, but it is tedious. The FreeBSD installer, on the > other hand, does pretty much all of that for you. My point is that YMMV > widely between Linux distributions, which vary between extremes of, > "manually partition the disk" and "this graphical wizard does all the nasty > stuff for you" and FreeBSD is somewhere between those two. RedHat, Ubuntu, any of the major distributions. Heck, Knoppix is fine. Arch is an outlier, it's not trying to be easy to install for boomers. > > Linux really did just make stuff work. > > Huh. I remember before GPT you had to manually create MBR partitions > and, if you wanted more than 3 or 4 (or whatever the number was...) you > had to go and explicity create an extended partition and then subdivide > that. With FreeBSD, you just created one MBR partition and then the > installer let you create filesystems within that using their pseudo-graphical > installer (pseudo- in the sense that it was all text-based, but at least it > was menu driven if that was your bag). I found whatever Linux distribution > I was installing at the time a lot more complex than FreeBSD, but I get > that individuals differ here. All of the major Linux distros have made this point and click painless (and see my other post, they all work just fine without a mouse in a point and click world). FreeBSD hasn't updated their install process in decades. It is literally stepping back to the 4BSD era. Painless, it ain't.