From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5275 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2022 14:15:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jun 2022 14:15:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93ACA40C9B; Fri, 1 Jul 2022 00:15:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27A3A40C9A for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2022 00:15:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id BA1AE35E130; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:15:19 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Marshall Conover Message-ID: <20220630141519.GN28916@mcvoy.com> References: <180245D1-0DCD-4C2C-A26A-EF68578FD548@canb.auug.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: KXQZKWMBBONFJHZSRGAVYP4BLR7SS2AK X-Message-ID-Hash: KXQZKWMBBONFJHZSRGAVYP4BLR7SS2AK X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: "9 skills our grandkids won't have" - Is this a TUHS topic? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: I can still remember my amazement when I learned that a floppy or a hard disk wasn't one big file. That's when the light went on that there was a file system. Another one was popen(), I saw the fork in there and my head exploded, for some stupid reason I didn't think that libc would create new processes. One light bulb after another. On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 10:08:34AM -0400, Marshall Conover wrote: > A fun one: Using folders. > > People in their early 20s and younger - mostly those who grew up with > iPhones, Androids and Ipads - didn't interact with filesystems. > Instead, they grew up using apps that handled storage for them. When > they wanted a video, they were looking for it in a streaming app, and > they used the app's search function. If they were looking at photos, > it was much the same. Because of this, as hard as it is to believe, > they don't really grok the concept - and this keeps popping up, to my > delight. > > It initially popped into my field of view last year, when an astro > professor was running into trouble with undergrad students. The > professor was asking the students to put certain data into certain > folders, but the students fundamentally didn't understand what > "putting certain data in certain folders" meant: > https://twitter.com/saavikford/status/1425235201047908359 > > I love this quote from the professor, though unfortunately the tweet > prompting it was deleted. The professor was asked something like "do > the students not understand how drawers work?" Her response was, "They > fail to grasp that the idea of drawers themselves might exist. Because > they have a perfectly valid system of a laundry basket and a robot > that retrieves exactly the sock they want when they want it (as I'm > finally figuring out). Or something like that, anyway." > > And this continues to pop up - I saw a reddit thread the other day > that brought up entry-level computer science students who are coming > in not understanding folders at all. It's being added to the list of > abstractions that most people don't interact with day-to-day anymore, > and which must be explained. > > With that said, I have a friend my age (30s) who enjoys bringing up > their conviction that the Zoomers are correct, and hierarchical > filesystems should go the way of the dinosaur - with > searchability/tagging being the correct way to handle storage. That > could also be a fun discussion for the ML. > > One other fun note for the prompt. Someone noted that, working at an > apple store, they kept seeing young people use the caps lock key even > when just typing the first letter of the sentence; it then clicked > that this is closest to how phone keyboards work, and is likely where > they got the muscle memory from. > > Hope you're all having a nice morning, > > Marshall > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 9:40 AM Marc Donner wrote: > > > > Programming an 026 skip card. Inserting the skip card. > > Using ed in kernel safe mode to fix a broken config file. > > Threading a half-inch tape in a tape drive. Remembering to insert or remove the write ring. > > Cleaning floppy disk heads. > > Manually keying a boot program into an SDS-930. > > ===== > > nygeek.net > > mindthegapdialogs.com/home > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 9:14 AM steve jenkin wrote: > >> > >> What are the 1970???s & 1980???s Computing / IT skills ???our grandkids won???t have???? > >> > >> Whistling into a telephone while the modem is attached, because your keyboard has a stuck key > >> - something I absolutely don???t miss. > >> > >> Having a computer in a grimy wharehouse with 400 days of uptime & wondering how a reboot might go? > >> > >> steve j > >> > >> ========= > >> > >> 9 Skills Our Grandkids Will Never Have > >> > >> > >> 1: Using record players, audio cassettes, and VCRs > >> 2: Using analog phones [ or an Analog Clock ] > >> 3. Writing letters by hand and mailing them > >> 4. Reading and writing in cursive > >> 5. Using manual research methods [ this is a Genealogy site ] > >> 6. Preparing food the old-fashioned way > >> 7. Creating and mending clothing > >> 8. Building furniture from scratch > >> 9. Speaking the languages of their ancestors > >> > >> -- > >> Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design > >> 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) > >> PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA > >> > >> mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin > >> -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat