From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23447 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2022 01:54:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Aug 2022 01:54:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDFA40920; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:54:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-f42.google.com (mail-ot1-f42.google.com [209.85.210.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9233F4010B for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:53:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-f42.google.com with SMTP id l5-20020a05683004a500b0063707ff8244so7362627otd.12 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2022 18:53:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:from:to:cc; bh=SHcnPbJIseISiPy0ljf1HT5FC3VEvjfqOh1FlH/pSG0=; b=djGZufZqFDiAttgnCxgXkqsHn5VGSdKNKfe/TBMrSN0aKkmqkQb0WHlpgmgXMjZf1k ZngW5hLx5zS9QqqjGiQEFtF7+1nYNeHzRnMBCKoNJxRGtV8tX/RZjqe/Ch+nYlksmo21 OsghtCRR6e0YIXS9xbAdcW+cXZyxhQSeucw3X7EP9jD6cpZqEJYb1ux+L8qDIiBSezkQ NfTeQ5dskeKRp10fR83Y3pEvufHzsAPm5JT8v0oMdBqCTXz981aQb6dO5Ez+oOuOjc/J OS4JANPLbKJgnJAfFLtm/00GiHv2Et97bHUb6Llov89xAaQtSPNEJU7WoKnI6fsqDOm5 V4iA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=SHcnPbJIseISiPy0ljf1HT5FC3VEvjfqOh1FlH/pSG0=; b=OCWVogwuNNxQtoXAH6jV/0hktZoPbUsb8YFiaUvUieyRjlYbfuTL5wvdRy8E+/7NOR qTySAw/mTOw9Py0TIFbii+edC3H+sWZAtkIvf3XImmDx7H3aLNi0UkugFl99/C2vIWQL 6RmwtfYCqsqksWNiGCmLcMMKw7p3zPkOAx7NzBUl3lcd6JKheQcba8G+Ad21K/8t0OTD mbfdnWCnu6MXIPBGZJTR4+zle2toL1TVjLw5tS9qLqptxarenaleuWV/Qom6VltPKwh4 eaSQSil8/W5J7CQWizTLSWWKwrSBIsRcUeZ1tRBRaqnGwZsPA9KzC1kbr1/yWD6LjgcR SiQA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2msJQkhWspY4571jTm/J2sGQ4cnTRyeasDQVplg9xCPamOuJkk fhBSDL8wMZePrAQ4Ybaohz5id5HAp1U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5T6UMkShg2vGLMnwHQAtzi+/ivHCMQH+WVRCP6cjMDEjLuep2If2swzYGajeZIoBvTNbShvg== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:19cd:0:b0:61d:3117:579 with SMTP id k71-20020a9d19cd000000b0061d31170579mr618867otk.232.1660269177719; Thu, 11 Aug 2022 18:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from illithid (ip68-12-97-90.ok.ok.cox.net. [68.12.97.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m130-20020aca5888000000b0034276786a89sm136930oib.31.2022.08.11.18.52.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 11 Aug 2022 18:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 20:52:55 -0500 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: tuhs@tuhs.org, groff@gnu.org Message-ID: <20220812015255.5mexb5ndknnzlhms@illithid> References: <20220810171417.GY21168@mcvoy.com> <202208101737.27AHbupN011923@freefriends.org> <202208101744.27AHiWOT1220324@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20220810180210.GZ21168@mcvoy.com> <202208101804.27AI4VkB1221117@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20220810181911.50EEB3EE724@yagi.h-net.msu.edu> <202208101824.27AIOQG81222103@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202208111213.27BCDOfi019865@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ljefhaohqpqp2lim" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: Y555P47FC24X44GMZJDOTPUMLPDX2VPP X-Message-ID-Hash: Y555P47FC24X44GMZJDOTPUMLPDX2VPP X-MailFrom: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: pic List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --ljefhaohqpqp2lim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [looping in groff list] At 2022-08-11T10:34:50-0400, Dan Cross wrote: > On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 8:13 AM wrote: > > Dan Cross wrote: > > > I wrote to Brian, who works part-time at Google, and pitched the > > > idea to him, and he extended pic to generate SVG, though it wasn't > > > clear to what sources he was modifying, exactly. Then the pandemic > > > hit, and I ended up leaving Google, so I don't think it went > > > beyond that, but IIRC he said that coercing pic to generate SVG > > > wasn't particularly difficult. > > > > I'm sure he'd have been messing with his own sources. These days > > it'd be best to tr to get new features into GNU pic (IMHO, of > > course). >=20 > Oh surely. I just don't know what sources those would be, exactly; > presumably some derivative he's been shepherded all these years? I > wonder what it is.... Per Kernighan's _Unix: A History and a Memoir_ (2020), it seems likely that it was simply groff. "Camera-ready copy for this book was produced by the author in Times Roman and Helvetica, using groff, ghostscript, and other open source Unix tools." (copyright page) Further, figure 5.4 in that work was "created with Pic" (p. 95). GNU pic is already parameterized in the output format it produces, supporting four variants: "tpic" (`-c` option), "tex" (`-t`), "fig" (`-f`), and "troff". "fig" support has been #defined out for years and may never have been completed. SVG output, perhaps behind an `-s` flag, would be extremely helpful toward simplifying groff's HTML output story. (The other barrier is tbl's production of HTML tables, Savannah #60052.[1]) Regards, Branden [1] https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?60052 --ljefhaohqpqp2lim Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEh3PWHWjjDgcrENwa0Z6cfXEmbc4FAmL1sm8ACgkQ0Z6cfXEm bc58fQ//YsYr1U0uiCnmEcq+L+2A09p9Zx+/0TdHkW/SxSDhqk1eRnyVauiDUr20 +rOnmcRJdLZOI5rmQEBGh3ArE3DRDRc5450S4NjLDEaQULkxtLjRz/gMbp27Xa4x P0DXZ9jPAdkr2OrxoZjNlLOIYYYwOEuqtQ8eGnFzO8WiIMGb5qNPaiFR6o2YScYM a6WCQJr8TK+oaF16N70wFuX50F1HDer0EylTcVtLAILMhACQD4Ep18/wp99ep3cU tBe5aQpOlR3rFaCYps0fyrlfp6di3P62Ki24Nxfx2yywewfw5HPvmmNbDpdqlREB cd7dQVxF+Wmzx39N1I+ZTlyx74RwqTjPPbvIvJbWYOHUccTzpDrPpwM7u5K0SsK0 nhguz8LPcUa08baOZvcTudyBLDBSqUCymoaYFd7i+PlqjV3diVbmS8iN5e8cfyLR 7KFwf5tQ4Xt88D62pochA58oNereKGfK+zBXpaXnO6x6FLi8Ip4pFpMJJyHxsosJ zpPSpzEBswqOXj1qprYPdffSagrVGXyDUJB/mnLOYu25joYAf/oEDScI2uEDtBUy UKTHVP8+eTLmyrCvNwx7sxG6Kg7Vpr495WbYnkvg0Vmtc88v9NI3L0+9x1RW2rmy x3iIf0m/Zj7c3+JBaHVRF+D8n28+82pM9jq52KsIKvGYlnnnA5s= =7sT8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ljefhaohqpqp2lim--