Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still bewilders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning. So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of the "System V" User's Manual. I haven't identified the exact differences, lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least a few commands in one and not the other. Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V or if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license was issued. The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I see out there. So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell logo on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it. Likewise, all but one of the System V related documents I received recently contain a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save for the Opeartor's Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page divestiture message that other documents missing the Bell logo include. Furthermore, the actual cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System Release 5.0" so technically not System V. In fact, only the User's Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error Message Manual, Transition Aids, and Release Description specifically say System V, all the rest don't have a version listed but some list Release 5.0 on their title page. Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1 Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo. Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any "Release 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought the System V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with* the Bell logo. This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the documentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal of the Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them to aggressively market System V, but now this presents four distinct sets of System V gold documentation: Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo System V w/ Bell logo System V w/o Bell logo I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is. The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of 5.0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals got stamped with a Bell post-production. What this means is "Release 5.0" documentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V" was being shipped pre-divestiture. If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as System V, then what explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating around in the wild, and vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market and support UNIX until the divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0" documents are floating around in well produced commercial-quality binding, both pre and post-divestiture by the time the name "System V" would've been king. Were they still maintaining an internal 5.x branch past System V that warranted its own distinct documentation set even into the commercial period? This period right around '82-'83 is incredibly fascinating and I feel very under-documented. - Matt G.
It's not surprising that System V branding occurred pre-divestiture.
Remember that they were already marketing System III circa 1980.
As I've mentioned before, when I saw the UNIX 4.0 system in 1981, I was told
that the Bell System ran the current version and released the earlier
one publicly. Knowledge of the upcoming divestiture apparently caused
someone to decide to just make the internal and external releases the same.
Dunno if this helps. :-)
Arnold
segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still
> bewilders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning.
>
> So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of
> the "System V" User's Manual. I haven't identified the exact differences,
> lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least
> a few commands in one and not the other.
>
> Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal
> UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was
> ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V
> or if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license
> was issued.
>
> The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I
> see out there. So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell
> logo on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it.
> Likewise, all but one of the System V related documents I received
> recently contain a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save
> for the Opeartor's Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page
> divestiture message that other documents missing the Bell logo include.
> Furthermore, the actual cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System
> Release 5.0" so technically not System V. In fact, only the User's
> Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error Message Manual, Transition Aids,
> and Release Description specifically say System V, all the rest don't
> have a version listed but some list Release 5.0 on their title page.
>
> Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1
>
> Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error
> Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo.
> Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any
> "Release 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought
> the System V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with*
> the Bell logo.
>
> This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the
> documentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal
> of the Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them
> to aggressively market System V, but now this presents four distinct
> sets of System V gold documentation:
>
> Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo
> Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo
> System V w/ Bell logo
> System V w/o Bell logo
>
> I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is.
> The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of
> 5.0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals
> got stamped with a Bell post-production. What this means is "Release
> 5.0" documentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V"
> was being shipped pre-divestiture. If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as
> System V, then what explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating
> around in the wild, and vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market
> and support UNIX until the divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0"
> documents are floating around in well produced commercial-quality binding,
> both pre and post-divestiture by the time the name "System V" would've
> been king. Were they still maintaining an internal 5.x branch past
> System V that warranted its own distinct documentation set even into
> the commercial period? This period right around '82-'83 is incredibly
> fascinating and I feel very under-documented.
>
> - Matt G.
On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 06:48:44PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still bewilders me with this documentation I'm working on scanning. > > So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of the "System V" User's Manual. I haven't identified the exact differences, lots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least a few commands in one and not the other. > > Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal UNIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was ever released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V or if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license was issued. > > The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I see out there. So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell logo on the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it. Likewise, all but one of the System V related documents I received recently contain a Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save for the Opeartor's Guide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page divestiture message that other documents missing the Bell logo include. Furthermore, the actual cover sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System Release 5.0" so technically not System V. In fact, only the User's Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error Message Manual, Transition Aids, and Release Description specifically say System V, all the rest don't have a version listed but some list Release 5.0 on their title page. > > Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1 > > Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error Message Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo. Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any "Release 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought the System V gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with* the Bell logo. > > This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the documentation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal of the Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them to aggressively market System V, but now this presents four distinct sets of System V gold documentation: > > Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo > Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo > System V w/ Bell logo > System V w/o Bell logo > > I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is. The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of 5.0 manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals got stamped with a Bell post-production. What this means is "Release 5.0" documentation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V" was being shipped pre-divestiture. If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as System V, then what explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating around in the wild, and vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market and support UNIX until the divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0" documents are floating around in well produced commercial-quality binding, both pre and post-divestiture by the time the name "System V" would've been king. Were they still maintaining an internal 5.x branch past System V that warranted its own distinct documentation set even into the commercial period? This period right around '82-'83 is incredibly fascinating and I feel very under-documented. For at least the User's Manual and Administrator's Manual there is another version. https://www.ebay.com/itm/204176652924?orig_cvip=true UNIX System User's Manual Release 5.0 Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands June 1982 different cover without mention of Western Electric (another old ebay listing) UNIX System Administrator's Manual Release 5.0 Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands June 1982 same cover as above user's manual https://books.google.com.au/books/about/UNIX_System_V_Release_2_0.html?id=Qg9bNwAACAAJ UNIX System V: Release 2.0, User Reference Manual Including BTL Computer Center Standard and Local Commands December 1983 Pirzada's thesis mentions 5.0, 5.0.1, 5.0.3, 5.0.5 System V 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, 2.2, 3.0 "Release 5.0, announced in October 1982." "AT&T's divestiture in 1983 allowed UNIX to compete in the commercial market place and on 1st January 1983, Commercial System V was announced. As it was identical to Release 5.0, this was the first time that current version of UNIX in the Labs was licensed outside." http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/System_V_Release_1/301-905_UNIX_System_V_Release_1_Users_Manual_Jan83.pdf UNIX System User's Manual System V January 1983 301-905 Issue 1 'Pursuant to Judge Greene's Order of August 5, 1983, beginning on January 1, 1984, AT&T will cease to use "BELL" and the Bell symbol, with the exceptions as set forth in that Order. Pursuant thereto, any reference to "BELL" and / or the BELL symbol in this document is hereby deleted and "expunged".' AT&T Documentation Guide, 1987: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/att/000-111_ATT_Documentation_Guide_Nov87.pdf UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S GUIDE 301-931 UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S MANUAL 301-926 UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 ERROR MESSAGE MANUAL 301-922 UNIX SYSTEM RELEASE 5.0 USER'S MANUAL 301-925 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S GUIDE 301-939 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ADMINISTRATOR'S MANUAL 301-906 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TOOLS GUIDE 307-235 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE RELEASE NOTES 307-238 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE SOURCE CODE RELEASE NOTES. 307-236 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ASSIST SOFTWARE USER'S GUIDE 307-234 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 DOCUMENT PROCESSING GUIDE 341-920 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 ERROR MESSAGE MANUAL 301-907 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 GRAPHICS GUIDE 341-921 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 OPERATOR'S GUIDE 301-941 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 PROGRAMMING GUIDE 341-930 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 REMOTE FILE SHARING UTILITIES REFERENCE CARD 307-000 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 SUPPORT TOOLS GUIDE 341-940 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 SYSTEM RELEASE DESCRIPTION INTERNATIONAL VERSION 307-017 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 TRANSITION AIDS 301-908 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 USER'S GUIDE 301-921 UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 1.0 USER'S MANUAL 301-905