From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26874 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2023 05:53:57 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Jan 2023 05:53:57 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2E14235C; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 15:53:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f42.google.com (mail-oa1-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10EE541BFF for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 15:53:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f42.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1322d768ba7so29509332fac.5 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 21:53:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2c7w93mw04AIcsfw8xgvwG1NN5AVlPResKqPMXq6DFI=; b=nqtq/WVi0gijYh8gx5caGZcwLRR+ucPZK2BrhahVfgpnruWKESIp2Zq7KsDv5a0wky z0D1LeDFmvnHNd14OW6WaqxmInytvoS+Y+ICp+MQVYm+O0S9bO1Ctm6oeDRRI+XrPBvd Ubt6AuIxHuCQmu1GMl2SMCCmMHv4hkF3LIhdaysPPIF5zuf7msrEDQ/qkq5zvqEZDE9P ZBeG1SoUQQNI4GedCIQnQUNyoHwKipTzFZhoTefIvhpEIsFhsNTvwqCqV8VFI6dGtopX eI7DzKd+nDMXFGLCYLVmSu7gKeMc1a7JP1dWNukbo/h5PdtJbilkbSJSKcSPF5ar863f ZcJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=2c7w93mw04AIcsfw8xgvwG1NN5AVlPResKqPMXq6DFI=; b=hbGmdhN5J51SSpiRQ+hIL6RvN0KtzncgwXVzg416F8ffGEJjZI8gcx6/2wZ4EwSfXr c8kvPH9XlGFejHo9y934mxeOxTja3gMblSabnzkbGDpWr6bY7xaWDXGDOs3qEJNRnzL+ LEzomrpw2HDrL0dqyat8TEO58ChQdlgmoAa3gjATlMmHR6nHuTkwR25tdhSZiF+Ri0mW fho/hW+NwK0mpF4J6mNdwEeIbIu/NkM2RWFfhrB5Xr8PP5BfL5iFlERxTXsmmVANiMVT JedHYZhC3PhtBRgeisJ/B2StwBY/Kr0P+IrM4DNYIEqTGpiSxMqyZQr1IlAhjMvHt+/k Y87g== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kq4nndqCsLzcDC6efWemLgejYLFiF3J2YANvaeD4MfR32ZUj7kh MzZRnrcQEDYLgmDvmghkMiRvhWwQ/NE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXv2rGnUDTFx6Md6qWmkCPAlKVuK2oMJ+EuIkW/jvF2g0kHESZHtPF2g9EQwWM08bJ7CHsPu4g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:cb82:b0:150:7395:49a with SMTP id ov2-20020a056870cb8200b001507395049amr3854708oab.59.1672552335850; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 21:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from illithid (ip68-12-97-90.ok.ok.cox.net. [68.12.97.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s24-20020a056870ea9800b0014c7958c55bsm11754985oap.42.2022.12.31.21.52.15 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 31 Dec 2022 21:52:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 23:52:13 -0600 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: tuhs@tuhs.org Message-ID: <20230101055213.va3hnzsxzeeot5an@illithid> References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <18521483-A73C-4B5F-A76A-6098BD93E9BC@planet.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3ftjjwfjh2egcmmu" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: SUFCKW4RKJ66CYLP7ZXZUZK64J237G4O X-Message-ID-Hash: SUFCKW4RKJ66CYLP7ZXZUZK64J237G4O X-MailFrom: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --3ftjjwfjh2egcmmu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 2023-01-01T00:35:12-0500, Dan Cross wrote: > On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 12:27 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 31, 2022, 9:38 PM Jonathan Gray wrote: > >> [snip] > >> Bourne's AsiaBSDCon 2016 talk also lists 1976 > >> and goes on to discuss sbrk() use causing problems with ports > >> https://youtu.be/7tQ2ftt3LO8?t=3D715 > > > > And at 5:18 he says he had a vax lab with three vaxen and the Lab's > > vax port didn't have virtual memory. Bill Joy with 3BSD which had > > virtual memory. They installed it on the vaxen because they were > > hitting physical memory limits for some of their programs.... >=20 > One wonders what is meant by "virtual memory" in this context. I > contend that Unix has had "virtual memory" since moving off of the > PDP-11/20, in the sense of having a virtual address space that was > mapped onto a (possibly contiguous) physical address space. I think > all of these references mean demand paging, possibly with page > reclamation or whole-process swapping under memory pressure. I apologize if this point is too elementary, but I speculate that one possible source of confusion comes from a file naming convention: which of these (multiple) virtual memory or demand-paged VM systems installed the kernel under the name "vmunix" vs. "unix". Which ones did and did not? When I was first learning Unix I asked a local expert why the kernel was named "vmunix". They told me that it was because it supported virtual memory (and explained what that was, because I was even more callow then than now). Then I asked where the non-VM kernel was. I was informed that there wasn't one--it didn't even exist for modern architectures. I wondered then why, if virtual memory was a given, you wouldn't just go back to using the filename "unix". I wondered similar things when encountering the "vmlinux" file a couple of years later. Reflexive obeisance to traditions has a cost. Regards, Branden --3ftjjwfjh2egcmmu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEh3PWHWjjDgcrENwa0Z6cfXEmbc4FAmOxH4IACgkQ0Z6cfXEm bc77bQ/+J632R0eNzGSNk3fgMqyGRefzumieqOQedVYvr8pD4cF5WUxIThJ4W3n/ z4TF/MP7O9Mm4DAtum2ZGlAf/4UhffBGpwmtj537N8gXH6oA/VQHc38auQIIyPfe YE1EBFbWMNTGgBMw2SYacsJQNcssx2azhfgc+liMrBvYpt2VSlenPb2Pe6TywBKY CF/VAP0QzyNewlbSowh1IYJ/VJlOHH8UQ6MNKsA8xaQuT51bjWn5waNo7EOaPDhO 4TdB90BJB1vuXPJVy48pqL6P3NoPEJYyyC1/uEyjUgvD9Q4Gsx2sErcqL915eUyP LUUQFVAkSLOvcJ3uE3zGDueZigsgyNg4J01JLk9xDgACeVBIMx9yXr4dsCL0jaxv F+6OXQciM8CHcBJqhfr0B3ugXInqA5bseI0WE8fODVyrOa0HKVZLssv+uI3/6Vzl BXEHA+bruqm3BtfwiRY0qGZ4ZBr7k9JM46RhOKN4Ry//4R6gphZC8VYMrGnJKXCl qGO+1t0EpgCZYV9DodJBSEGe7BbkX+0168gDO86Rpumx8Yp/10TsYP/PcnhtADkX DvX7rNGxo1sTpvh730nuzCXtyu4kXw3wqE/B/OX3tvEqlyLElZYFpN44UaicHug8 rnvnVtoPEYxOq3i3lVPnebSjzG4f9M/9zvFZ5EzI2jliWl2h6Vk= =MeAJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3ftjjwfjh2egcmmu--