From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21980 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2023 18:01:49 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jan 2023 18:01:49 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00EAF40CFF; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 04:01:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f42.google.com (mail-oa1-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2283740A1A for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 04:01:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f42.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-15027746720so19273461fac.13 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 10:01:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lbrx8OL8bLLxYBltolM+Xcn8lViksBf9+3hv3WOvgmk=; b=aquyeFA929KbTfgoOi/UthGAalvfXb85U/O/sGW14mQBw06j3rCitARRqA7vLJRF5z NOlKM0FUhBpHLVV3HxKWY7Bd4F4y86o20oO7s/JIwsEmzkFLEbmwRou4AWvfpFJqRG1g be9IhZLyTps+518JUWwk0LubN4Ea3W6T2fWDqhSgSXr1hnnAjskCaNfjmKTEWxQQeEiH aFaWAs7TCbO2ChkE78nMbqTLVeYbpoUqHIfzUQWoacMsBNh5bdpvJc099n4S7Av+8WXD bQVbeLZsfSOom7IK3mCplfaJ676a6l4e8YEvoD9tb0wwLDqN1o5vdmR0gdlKtv7mP7N5 S1oQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=lbrx8OL8bLLxYBltolM+Xcn8lViksBf9+3hv3WOvgmk=; b=u/g1vYs1VmhYPBTmof6HcWutdpIq/LYqf7MKnGH63+ma+STUajCnkbGN4b3U3Vyzyd GyDYAQcpXe/ueJKqQVyr5SqkuD9I0ogZ5O33b+ucCyV7NDnpwfCsSARN1rUWN4QLVqB3 Uco8WHZkQWiJplI5U/yuO6DuWCzRlxtexl3cGB1faV1gmkIx/h6YpvSYfQqmZ14PQV0V Mul0QCjTTE6feE2aDLi1KvdEvqGT2KO0CyyW22iV8OrWgyhzQB49G4id6qBft7JR5xZU roHEC4fus8jZ11dipuM9ObbdcLMst9UCynj388gLAHDK23SnNQJgL0oJetoTqyecGwX7 jQbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krY/iqbyC7ix8tpQY00lafSVYokKRwEGFR4zSAgyUMsTYHtssv7 GQeUVhhgmZEAYsuENU5BpVHun0zlM9tlhg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsuOfJK9UJgD8+Pw6gNh8+x8gLvCfI6fxuNkvHkMlylKu8DUJvhrtj3Hj40z78uWWjWfQgCCg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:9706:b0:150:2774:6738 with SMTP id n6-20020a056870970600b0015027746738mr11938576oaq.26.1672682422347; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from illithid (ip68-12-97-90.ok.ok.cox.net. [68.12.97.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c9-20020a056870b28900b0014474019e50sm13255260oao.24.2023.01.02.10.00.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 02 Jan 2023 10:00:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 12:00:20 -0600 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: tuhs@tuhs.org Message-ID: <20230102180020.p6gmiwhrnidfbfsc@illithid> References: <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> <528f0c53-ccc2-88a1-5a7b-120362c648dd@mhorton.net> <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> <59004a29-5119-9dd9-c248-518b8c4e7928@makerlisp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fdexl7fq3zuwad3u" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59004a29-5119-9dd9-c248-518b8c4e7928@makerlisp.com> Message-ID-Hash: VUE7RFXHU25J6SU6L4RZWY4CNYXYORR2 X-Message-ID-Hash: VUE7RFXHU25J6SU6L4RZWY4CNYXYORR2 X-MailFrom: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --fdexl7fq3zuwad3u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 2023-01-02T10:48:32-0700, Luther Johnson wrote: > Arnold Schoenberg said of his 12-tone method of music composition, "in > constraints I find freedom". The best thing about committing to a > simple style and a small set of tools that span the problem space, is > the effect it has on my program composition, imho. Schoenberg didn't have to compose for orchestras such that the Berlin Philharmonic string section tuned half of the octave meantone with the other half equal-tempered, whereas the Royal Concertgebouw had the brasses play an un-notated ascending major third gliss anytime you approached the tonic from a tritone _below_ (only). > On 01/02/2023 10:43 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > > I was supporting a commercial product in the early 2000's and there > > were all sorts of systems then that had old shells. Yes, you could > > make everything a 2 level thing where the first level finds the > > correct shell, but that's just fuss. Just make things portable, > > it's not that hard and it works everywhere. > >=20 > > When you get to the commercial world, you'd be stunned to see how > > long old machines last. If they are solving some problem, and they > > aren't broken, nobody replaces them. I'll bet you anything there > > are still SCO registers out there, I'll bet there are still PDP-11s > > out there. The logical consequence of this is to write in Autoconf's recommended dialect of shell, which has far too many rules to remember because every Unix vendor added exciting new bugs to their "pure" V7 shells. https://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/manual/autoconf-2.60/html_node/Portab= le-Shell.html > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. They were all broken. Badly. If your scripts worked, you got lucky at Russian Roulette. No greater claim to robustness can be made. POSIX shell conformance still proves challenging for vendors, but is an immense improvement over the status quo ante. I agree with Robert Elz though that standardizing the alias feature was nuts. I want to know who brought the crack cocaine to the conference table that day. 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