From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4215 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2023 22:35:58 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Jan 2023 22:35:58 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0607E42529; Wed, 4 Jan 2023 08:35:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4B3342528 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2023 08:35:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from kent.sdaoden.eu (kent.sdaoden.eu [192.0.2.2]) by sdaoden.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 521661605B for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 23:35:14 +0100 (CET) Received: by kent.sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2481DB48DD; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 23:32:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2023 21:19:00 +0100 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Steve Nickolas Message-ID: <20230103201900.oR1Qq%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: Mail-Followup-To: Steve Nickolas , TUHS main list User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.24-386-g8a3b8aed6d OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: KW4G4B6SKUZ5PJ5R7MCPLHJVTR7OVBXP X-Message-ID-Hash: KW4G4B6SKUZ5PJ5R7MCPLHJVTR7OVBXP X-MailFrom: steffen@sdaoden.eu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Steve Nickolas wrote in : |On Tue, 3 Jan 2023, Dan Cross wrote: |> Something I've noticed is that lots of people try to increase |> complexity to solve problems, and it rarely occurs to them to |> eliminate complexity to solve problems. Sometimes the reasons for this |> are good; most of the time they are not. |> |> - Dan C. | |I think of the saying: "Perfection is not when there is nothing left to= =20 |add, but when there is nothing left to remove." He (Exup=C3=A9ry) was then shot down. I always seem to response this to that. Hmm, openpgp@ietf.org (to which i have almost zero to add technically shall someone think that, nor do i want) lastly |"Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add but when \ |there |is nothing left to take away" - Antoine de Saint-Exup=C3=A9ry. He was then shot down. But yes, he then really went missing. The topic .. I do not miss times where suddenly a shell script breaks because ": > FILE" does not work (just recently 'realized from reading code of Paul Eggert of GNU/IANA TZ, "hey, > FILE" is of course sufficient!"), i fixed it via "printf '' > FILE" by then; whatever the reason. May it be bugs or (local) miscompilations, not detected due to missing unit tests and a too small user base. Portable? If i find /usr/xpg4/bin i quickly add it to $PATH for the much better awk (but beware of documented double expansion issues) and the much much better sh(1). Some things just require that, noclobber I/O redirection (set -C) for example. (mktemp(1) is still not part of the POSIX standard.) Besides i miss(ed) the history; the author of bmake (and verieexec) just last year asked me why i would use stty for a purpose ("(<&1 >/dev/null stty -a) 2>/dev/null") instead of simply using "[ -t 1 ]", and indeed, i found that as soon as BSD 4.1 and Research V7, but it surprised me. Without an oversight of the history and the lack of many systems to test, perl(1) was omnipresent and if only for OpenSSL and so using it for almost anything seemed save. To love is not to look at one another: it is to look, together, in the same direction. Antoine de Saint-Exup=C3=A9ry. A happy and healthy new Year 2023 is now overdue. Even Giants have to die, but with holding hands it can wait a bit longer, i hope. I wish that from Germany to all of you, and deliberately beyond NATO readership. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)