From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28570 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2023 18:22:33 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2023 18:22:33 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D3A24252E; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 04:22:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f47.google.com (mail-oa1-f47.google.com [209.85.160.47]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7B664252D for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 04:22:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-12c8312131fso7160944fac.4 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:22:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:message-id:subject:to :from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=y6eJYsu8yWqmtytxVGwfuclcQHVDLpFjjbeDAdtT+pM=; b=G1AH7HDWP4pvmPWloObmUuhwrw+CGk/xavytduBpnqqRCIqw0+w0PqBggTCKs7eVqj hhZTj13nCoRjflWSg7Ph3oYsGtRDJYepwumUnqJcISsP6Lyriu9724gOhAGZRW4mpYbQ 2FQEEYgyIULOEHQJ1i3pNhjZTYDZ94Bd1s8iETPqam8BXTSGscxO2l7t/ZAPb6NPG3Ee OqakmZdes3m0XbeGvE5RyYvD2jwr2r/uMTcAC4Pu7UecvoMr2NXDfCKhjjMdBY38h19p h5rgDZKBwarVRFv+8ppC/l4FCQdOP50OTpYe1GfKaQI2+NdF1gz6i74qjte1lLjDDxnB kUPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:message-id:subject:to :from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=y6eJYsu8yWqmtytxVGwfuclcQHVDLpFjjbeDAdtT+pM=; b=rHdUdK0TIzJ26/NTRtNEWX2ahOk9X76msBriNvGS4ZjKSE1m2Or1LmYx9cs/rF1ITe UzhY6i33cQYEL0lOz9Wwv3CMpjfiOh40H8+rh1A0TnmWyivkt7bq86vRLgOg30wx5bJ4 E5u/79gMltNBALYe2VJME6usgo8ydZFO4a7eoB1trIs8A5CUlxhOtBU8Jd2KtMwMwPsa FqH9Ppz0bnK4NJs/uDRcOFfd5OPWDcGKHQa02vJYqIk6FWeMEOyVfv+j/VihVKeWRYui U8R7VyufRicCtL4oPzjaIGdYkaVFQDTtvnm3bUPpJu4IKzTQwL/+NSP96MVlbDSzWc8U ExRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqJk3MpUYP1fc/bMa+hCCbf/AcgMdMZ3AaUL8sswqmoawmnKxCO +9QQCEDW+6KT8G4dRjLlgpCNmKJSgto= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsUS102O9KQUvQSDS4WAh8qTa5m+yA8N4BbOs6Ac3N0iSFkzGoxlks/vu8JKonKlcS9XeJeAQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4151:b0:15b:aa45:ae60 with SMTP id r17-20020a056870415100b0015baa45ae60mr9695287oad.32.1674238876832; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from illithid (ip68-12-97-90.ok.ok.cox.net. [68.12.97.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w18-20020a056870a2d200b0014fd25bd3b5sm22433488oak.0.2023.01.20.10.21.16 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 12:21:14 -0600 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: tuhs@tuhs.org Message-ID: <20230120182114.mv3k3zkh3e32xtnj@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="w2scbfobuaaoplxj" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C52C6D8-8742-4B72-8AE4-130C334EBA88@cfcl.com> Message-ID-Hash: R3RJ26JTUMVA3FK2FV7ITQWPZ7ORBI2V X-Message-ID-Hash: R3RJ26JTUMVA3FK2FV7ITQWPZ7ORBI2V X-MailFrom: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: The death of general purpose computers, was - AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --w2scbfobuaaoplxj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 2023-01-20T07:56:41-0800, Rich Morin wrote: > One of the problems that cell phones solve is providing (relatively) > instant-on capability. The RasPi processor doesn't have hardware > support for this; dunno which others might... At 2023-01-20T16:24:50+0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > If that means I don't have the whole jumble of other problems I'd have > with owning a traditional smartphone, I can deal with actually turning > it on and off with a full boot cycle. Frankly the "always on" kinda > disturbs me, so just one more thing I get better control of. Can someone characterize why solving this problem and having (near) instant-on for such a device would be hard? Lack of support for low-power states in the CPU or on the board? I don't see a huge gap between having to key in something to unlock my phone versus a restoring from suspend-to-disk with a LUKS passphrase. If you've suspended to disk you're pretty safe to operate in as low-power a mode as you want. > Not to drift the conversation too much though, towards the end of > general purpose computing, I like that idea too because the particular > single board I have in mind (a RISC-V one I've got) I have heard that firmware blobs are just as ubiquitous and hard to eliminate on RISC-V boards as they are everywhere else. This is a real problem for establishing a trusted computed base. It seems everybody who makes support chips is arc-welded to unverifiable code. We'll have to replace the stuff ourselves, slowly and painfully. I submit that the only way to win that battle in the long run is to copyleft it; otherwise the community's work will simply wind up re-closed, with new features to sell the board, and new backdoors thanks to sloppy bugs and friendly handshakes from friendly guys in suits. I'd love to be wrong about this. Does someone have a curated list of free firmwares for support chips (or SoC modules)? Mondo bonus points for them being written in a verifiable language like Spark/Ada. Sorry if I made you spit your coffee out there. I think I know how far we are =66rom a better world. > also has a traditional HDMI port and 4 USBs, and ethernet, so if I do > it right, I have a mobile that I can also plug in K&M and a monitor to > and use at a desk. Society can pry my desk computing from my cold, > dead hands, I've never felt as productive using a computing device in > any other context. Yup, that is very close to what I want in a so-called "convergence" device. The _ideal_ for me personally would be to put it in a clamshell with an LCD over a Happy Hacking Keyboard. That's the perfect form factor (and key layout) for me. I'd tote that thing everywhere. 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