From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15786 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2023 16:18:55 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jan 2023 16:18:55 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4D6425EF; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 02:18:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 535F7425A2 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 02:18:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 0E29A35E91A; Mon, 30 Jan 2023 08:18:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 08:18:46 -0800 From: Larry McVoy To: Dan Cross Message-ID: <20230130161846.GH12306@mcvoy.com> References: <202301300750.30U7oQTh013304@freefriends.org> <20230130150219.GD12306@mcvoy.com> <20230130152703.GE12306@mcvoy.com> <20230130154555.GF12306@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: NOMJJHT5BKRJBI2YZZMAUR7AXJYDHUZQ X-Message-ID-Hash: NOMJJHT5BKRJBI2YZZMAUR7AXJYDHUZQ X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: FD 2 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 11:09:03AM -0500, Dan Cross wrote: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 10:45 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 10:35:25AM -0500, Dan Cross wrote: > > > Plan 9 was different, and a lot of people who were familiar with Unix > > > didn't like that, and were not interested in trying out a different > > > way if it meant that they couldn't bring their existing mental models > > > and workflows into the new environment unchanged. > > > > > > At one point it struck me that Plan 9 didn't succeed as a widespread > > > replacement for Unix/Linux because it was bad or incapable, but > > > rather, because people wanted Linux, and not plan9. > > > > Many people make that mistake. New stuff instead of extend old stuff. > > Some would argue that's not a mistake. How else do we innovate if > we're just incrementally polishing what's come before? I didn't say limit yourself to polishing, I said try and not invalidate people's knowledge while innovating. Too many people go down the path of doing things very differently and they rationalize that they have to do it that way to innovate. That's fine but it means it is going to be harder to get people to try your new stuff. The point I'm trying to make is that "different" is a higher barrier, much, much higher, than "extend". People frequently ignore that and that means other people ignore their work. It is what it is, I doubt I'll convice anyone so I'll drop it.