From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17731 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2023 20:54:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Feb 2023 20:54:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFC642242; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 06:54:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69C3942241 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 06:54:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id C042535E61D; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 12:54:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2023 12:54:40 -0800 From: Larry McVoy To: Warner Losh Message-ID: <20230222205440.GB7194@mcvoy.com> References: <20230222201233.GY7194@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: ET4JHIJ6C3SHSEXS53PZDZFNFHFAOLVP X-Message-ID-Hash: ET4JHIJ6C3SHSEXS53PZDZFNFHFAOLVP X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Open sourcing SunOS? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 01:46:53PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 1:12 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > The networking stack in SunOS 4.x was BSD derived. You might be thinking > > of Solaris, that took the Lachman STREAMS stack but that was 5.x, not > > 4.x. > > > > I was thinking of the streams stuff that's in 4.x BSD. There's AT&T > copyrights > on it. There's also, strangely, rfs sources included with some of the stuff > one > can find online. But it looks to be imported nearly verbatim from System V > of some flavor with very few edits, judging by the 1.1 versions in many of > the > files. I ripped out the STREAMS stuff (it was STREAMS, not dmr's streams). And I ripped out RFS. There was more than 1.1 versions in some version of SunOS, my former office mate, Howard Chartok, did a pile of work on RFS. > > As the only guy, that I'm aware of, who took all the encumbered stuff > > out of the kernel, put back the BSD tty drivers and a few other small > > things that resulted in a kernel that we could freely open source, > > I beg to differ with: > > > > > Bits of the > > > network stack as well. It was hopeless to try to open source. There was a > > > lot of bits > > > and pieces that Sun had done with contracts that were, at best, ambiguous > > > for > > > what to do should they want to open source it. > > I'm just reporting what my VP told me... Grepping through the source I can > find online, the evidence is closer to what you say than what Glen told me. > Either he or I must have confused Solaris 2 with SunOS 4. Like I said, in 1992 or 1993, I had a BSD licensed SunOS 4.1.something, I think 4.1.3, kernel. No STREAMS, no RFS, no STREAMS based tty drivers, it was what lots of people called SunOS: "A bugfixed and improved BSD". I shopped it around inside Sun and there were plenty of people who wanted a reason to say it wasn't open source ready and they couldn't find one. -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat