From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 31279 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2023 20:48:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Mar 2023 20:48:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD65412C5; Tue, 21 Mar 2023 06:48:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDEC412C2 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2023 06:47:55 +1000 (AEST) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 16:44:30 +0100 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: arnold@skeeve.com Message-ID: <20230320154430.DW_SS%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <202303200755.32K7tIeW023352@freefriends.org> References: <20230319134701.3A262220F7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <202303200755.32K7tIeW023352@freefriends.org> Mail-Followup-To: arnold@skeeve.com, robpike@gmail.com, ralph@inputplus.co.uk, tuhs@tuhs.org User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.24-440-gf136fe83f1 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. Message-ID-Hash: 2ZAGR2KKUTCOF2D2WQDDXI73WTI6T4JP X-Message-ID-Hash: 2ZAGR2KKUTCOF2D2WQDDXI73WTI6T4JP X-MailFrom: steffen@sdaoden.eu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Bell Foreign-Language UNIX Efforts List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: arnold@skeeve.com wrote in <202303200755.32K7tIeW023352@freefriends.org>: |Rob Pike wrote: |> (Speaking of design by committee, the multibyte stuff in C89 was \ |> atrocious, |> and I heard was done in committee to get someone, perhaps the Japanese, \ |> to |> sign off.) | |It's not lovely, but I wouldn't call it atrocious. It gets the job |done; code using it can handle multibyte encodings while being totally No it does not. |character-set agnostic. I speak from experience, gawk does this. However note that even something like "uppercase this string" cannot be done the right way, because a truly Unicode aware operation needs to look at the entire string (sentence), because there may be interdependencies that modify the result. Therefore the entire isw*() and tow*() series is simply wrong. And therefore gawk does this wrong, too. (But the GNU environment does have a solution, i think.) |(I use the "restartable" routins - mbrlen() and so on.) Yes. |I understand that Unicode + UTF-8 solve the issue completely. But I'd In fact to do it right you need something like ICU. There are special number systems, they do not fit ISO C. There are special grammatical rules to obey, which especially hurts regarding everything truly collation aware. (And then my brain simply runs away from the thinking that invented strcoll(3) for anything beyond all-american ten inch.) |like to ask, in all seriousness and so that I can learn, given the world |as it was in 1989, how would you solve the problem? If you had designed |the C level routines, what would they have looked like? P.S.: no, no, and one more no. If you want to have a nice Monday, please have a look at NetBSD current source code, lib/libc/gen/vis.c. There you see how good this interface "gets the job done". And i saw it evolve as the commits of Christos Zoulas flew by, ten years or so ago. No. |Thanks, Then again it all does not matter since IETF and more simply throw one more thing upon the other, so that you need a JSON library for a key=value list, and a HTTP, HTTP/2 and HTTP/3 library to download it over TLS (i think the entire world now proxies all protocols over :443, which makes it safer, and administration easier! .. i have heard). Why did you invent 16-bit ports by then? What were you thinking? One is enough, and much safer! That makes me wonder how OpenBSD could introduce two remotes holes for only one port, .. but that likely is a different story. Hysterical on a Monday, and that on Equinox. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)