From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1157 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2023 22:33:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Mar 2023 22:33:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F90641362; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 08:33:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E351B41361 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 08:33:10 +1000 (AEST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 23:33:07 +0100 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Rob Pike Message-ID: <20230322223307.S67m0%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: <20230319134701.3A262220F7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20230322022526.GI3779@mcvoy.com> <202303220740.32M7eprr032005@freefriends.org> Mail-Followup-To: Rob Pike , Skip Tavakkolian , tuhs@tuhs.org User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.24-440-gf136fe83f1 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. Message-ID-Hash: FISQWEEKLZ223R5DC6FD3HTMUBV6EOF3 X-Message-ID-Hash: FISQWEEKLZ223R5DC6FD3HTMUBV6EOF3 X-MailFrom: steffen@sdaoden.eu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Bell Foreign-Language UNIX Efforts List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Rob Pike wrote in : |The appendix version named it plain UTF, repurposing the extant name to the |new encoding. The -8 came later, as it is in these linked documents, |because some people wanted a UTF-7 and a UTF-16. Those people should be |punished. I agree, but please with a but. For one especially so since UTF-7 (that i like) then didn't make it all through, but only here and there. Ie, if it would have been used for anything mail and DNS related to keep 7-bit compat. Instead they introduced monstrosities like IDNA for DNS, mUTF-7 (locale charset -> UTF-16BE -> mUTF-7) etc. That i hated: IDNA. If they would have said we give up on backward compatibility around Y2K, and the old stuff grows out; and 255 bytes UTF-8 is surely enough for domain names for some time (even percent encoded) even for those encodings which need four byte for one codepoint, and it simply does not work before. Like so they introduced those backward incompatibilities that they wanted to avoid. I did oppose strongly in the past, but UTF-16 has merits for some languages as well as for coding, even though you have to be able to deal with surrogates, .. and with grapheme boundaries, if you are doing it right, so 1:many is there anyhow. I mean, wchar_t is often 32-bit, and then not even UTF-32, at least possibly. But still you have the 1:many, so it buys you nothing. All-UTF-8 is of course great imho. (Asian people may disagree.) --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)