From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14906 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2023 00:43:53 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Aug 2023 00:43:53 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4579426D0; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 10:43:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC3E4426C9 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 10:43:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 7AB3835E130; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 17:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 17:43:43 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: KenUnix Message-ID: <20230806004343.GH19141@mcvoy.com> References: <709cc67b2a5670f2038914beafd605c4@yaccman.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Message-ID-Hash: HRDEFYSQJWRR5SUAAMR75NRJKFHO2PTD X-Message-ID-Hash: HRDEFYSQJWRR5SUAAMR75NRJKFHO2PTD X-MailFrom: lm@mcvoy.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Michael Kj??rling , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Early Unix and Keyboard Skills List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Just in case there is confusion, vi was Bill Joy, Bostic did nvi (which was open source and bug for bug compat), Bram did vim, which I think was a clean room version of vi with a huge bunch of added goodness. On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:22:17PM -0400, KenUnix wrote: > The thing I like is VI because it is almost universal. Windows, Linux, BSD > and Unix. > > In a pinch I use "ed". > > Sad to hear today that its creator has passed away. > > --Ken > > > On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 7:53???PM wrote: > > > I took typing in Summer School. My parents bought me a typewriter with > > mathematical symbols on it, which was almost worthless, and I had to > > improvise to get some of the standard characters (for example, the > > semicolon was comma/backspace/colon). By the time I was talking to > > computers ( Model 33 tty) I was happy that I couldn't type faster because > > it was impossible on that thing. > > > > Steve > > --- > > > > > > > > On 2022-11-02 00:11, Rob Pike wrote: > > > > Neither ken nor dmr were impressive typists. In fact few programmers were > > then, at least of my acquaintance. > > > > In the 1970s Bell Labs created the Getset - think of it as an early wired > > smartphone, or a Minitel, with a little screen and keyboard. It cost quite > > a bit but was a cool gadget so the executives all got one. But, in > > fascinating contrast to the Blackberry a generation later, no one would > > touch it - literally - because it had a keyboard, and keyboards were for > > (female) secretaries, not (male) executives. The product, although well > > ahead of its time, was a complete failure due to the cultural bias then. > > > > There may be a good sociology paper in there somewhere. > > > > I'm not saying K&D shared this blinkered view, not at all, just that > > typing skills were not de facto back then. Some of the folks were even > > two-finger jabbers. I was a little younger and a faster typist than most of > > the others, and I am not a good typist by any modern standard. > > > > bwk was one who could smash out the text faster than many. His having > > learned on a teletype, the keyboard would resound with the impact of his > > forceful keystrokes. > > > > -rob > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 5:53 PM Michael Kj??rling > > wrote: > > > > On 2 Nov 2022 13:36 +1100, from sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au (steve jenkin): > > > There's at least one Internet meme that highly productive coders > > > necessarily have good keyboard skills, which leads to also producing > > > documentation or, at least, not avoiding it entirely, as often > > > happens commercially. > > > > I wouldn't be so sure that this necessarily follows. Good keyboard > > skills definitely help with the mechanics of typing code as well as > > text, I'll certainly grant that; but someone can be a good typist yet > > write complete gibberish, or be a poor/slow typist and _by necessity_ > > need to consider each word that they use because typing an extra > > sentence takes them so long. If it takes you ten seconds to type out a > > normal sentence, revising becomes less of an issue than if typing out > > the same sentence takes a minute or a minute and a half. > > > > Also, certainly in my case and I doubt that I'm alone, a lot of my > > time "coding" isn't spent doing the mechanics of "writing code", but > > rather considering possible solutions to a problem, and what the > > consequences would be of different choices. That part of the software > > development process is essentially unaffected by how good one is as a > > typist, and I expect that the effect would be even more pronounced for > > someone using something like an ASR-33 and edlin, than a modern > > computer and visual editor. Again, the longer it takes to revise > > something, the more it makes sense to get it right on the first > > attempt, even if that means some preparatory work up-front. > > > > Writing documentation is probably more an issue of mindset and being > > allowed the time, than it is a question of how good one is as a > > typist. > > > > -- > > ???? Michael Kj??rling ???? https://michael.kjorling.se > > "Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?" > > > > > > -- > End of line > JOB TERMINATED -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat