From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8239 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2024 04:07:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Jan 2024 04:07:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1CF743F06; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 14:07:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from freecalypso.org (freecalypso.org [195.154.163.71]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EED343EFA for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 14:07:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by freecalypso.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D949B37403C1; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 04:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 20:06:36 -0800 From: Mychaela Falconia To: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com References: <20240105221729.371EA37401DA@freecalypso.org> <20240106030254.B8D7537401FF@freecalypso.org> <20240106032236.llpryldqt7lbondn@illithid> In-Reply-To: <20240106032236.llpryldqt7lbondn@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20240106040642.D949B37403C1@freecalypso.org> Message-ID-Hash: A22AHZJUDG5MNK2K7PC3FF3IHUXPDSQY X-Message-ID-Hash: A22AHZJUDG5MNK2K7PC3FF3IHUXPDSQY X-MailFrom: falcon@freecalypso.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org, aek@bitsavers.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: G. Branden Robinson wrote: > My belief, based on the evidence I have from these publications > colophons reporting which phototypesetter was used, is that the \(sq > special character was not filled in Graphic Systems C/A/T fonts used by > Bell Labs, I disagree. While the "NROFF/TROFF User's Manual" document proves that \(sq was hollow in all 3 fonts _as of 1976-10-11_ (the original date of this doc), bwk's document from 1978-08-04 indicates that this char had to have changed to a filled square by this date. However, troff in 1978 was still completely, utterly incapable of driving anything other than a C/A/T! Now bwk, the author of this doc, is the very same fine gentleman who wrote ditroff, the creature that was finally capable of driving a Linotron 202 or Autologic APS-5 or whatever - but the timeline does not match up. BWK's troff tutorial is dated 1978-08-04, but his work on ditroff (as I understand it) happened some time around 1980 or 1981. He may have started ditroff work in 1979, but definitely not in 1978. > but _was_ filled in the bold face by the Autologic APS-5. 4.3BSD Usenix books prove otherwise: these must have been troffed on APS-5, as many notes from that time attest, but they feature hollow square in bold. Even eqnchar(7) is "wrong" in 4.3BSD print in that "blot" is a hollow square, clearly counter to original intent of that named eqn character. > I have documented this understanding in the groff_char(7) man page, Ahh, so you are involved with groff - got it. I wrote my own version of troff (based on V7, running under 4.3BSD and directly emitting DSC-conforming PostScript) in 3 "bursts" of work around 2004, 2010 and 2012, but I never got around to releasing it. I am now in the process of cleaning it up for release, hoping to finally have it out in another week or two. And I put a _lot_ of work into replicating the original troff character set... > Also, my copies of these books are overseas, but I seem to remember that > the Holt/Reinhart/Winston (HRW) 1983 reprint of the Seventh Edition Thank you for clarifying what HRW is - so this 1983 version of 7th ed UPM is *not* the original? > > What was the physical form of this book? Was it a "perfect bound" > > book? > > The HRW copies I have are perfect bound. But I can't remember if they > were 3-hole punched as well. Thank you for the clarification! But if HRW version is not the original, then what was the original like? > Where did you discover the identity and date of the 1998 retypeset of > the V7 Volume 2 manual? https://plan9.io/7thEdMan/bswv7.html http://web.cuzuco.com/~cuzuco/v7/ The second page includes a link to this tarball: http://web.cuzuco.com/~cuzuco/v7/v7add.tar.gz Dates inside that tarball are 1998-12-13. There was also a place where Brian missed the retroffing date - see page 287 of his v7vol2a.pdf. > I have wondered about this for years. In part > to complain, because while it is a _fairly_ faithful reproduction of the > original, it is not perfect, What _I_ don't like about BSW's PDF rendition of V7 manuals is that it is a sort of "closed source" product: there is no published source package that retraces every step in the flow from ancient troff sources to the finished product. In the same 3 "bursts" of activity (2004, 2010 and 2012) when I worked on my own version of troff, I also worked toward doing a PostScript reprint of 4.3BSD Usenix books. 4.3BSD happens to be my personally preferred version of UNIX, but the same methods I use for 4.3BSD books can also be applied to V7. I am hoping that in the next week or two I will find time to release not only my version of troff, but also the partial set of 4.3BSD books I got done so far. Out of the 7 books that comprise 4.3BSD Usenix set, the breakdown is as follows: * URM, PRM and USD: I got these done already, only need to write new colophons to be added to the end of each book. These are the ones I am hoping to put out Real Soon Now. * PS1, PS2 and SMM remain to be worked on, but are part of my more distant plans. * The "Master Index" volume, I plan to skip that one - too difficult, and non-essential in my view. And yes, I am much more "perfectionist" about replicating troff details than BSW was for his V7 PDF version. M~