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From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com>
Cc: The Unix Heritage Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>,
	Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Building programs (Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:35:32 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20240621003532.GA13079@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877cej5gsp.fsf@gmail.com>

Are we into bike shed territory?

It seems like cmake and autoconf are hated but then they have their fans.
I posted a makefile that was pretty portable but that was not OK because
it was GNU make?  Huh?

I've been up since 12:22am (psyched for fishing, couldn't sleep) so maybe
I'm not on point, but what is the problem that this discussion is trying
to solve?

On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 09:35:18AM +1000, Alexis wrote:
> Bakul Shah via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> writes:
> 
> >To build a set of objects you need to worry about at least the
> >following:
> >- build recipes for each of them (which may also depend on other
> >things)
> >- configuration parameters
> >- dealing with differences on each platform
> >- third party libraries & alternatives
> >- toolchains (& may be cross-platform builds)
> >- supporting/navigating different versions of the last 3 above
> >
> >You can't really precompute all this as there are far too many
> >combinations and they keep changing.
> 
> Both the blog author (who is a long-time sysadmin with many 'war stories')
> and myself understand all that.
> 
> i believe the idea is not for precomputing to be done by _builds_, but to be
> done on and for a given machine and its configuration, independent of any
> specific piece of software, which is then _queried_ by builds. That
> precomputation would only need to be re-run when one of the things under its
> purview changes.
> 
> If i compile something on one of my OpenBSD boxen in the morning, and then
> compile some other thing in the afternoon, without an OS upgrade in-between,
> autoconf isn't going to find that libc.so has changed in-between. If i did
> the same thing on my Gentoo box, it's theoretically possible that e.g. i've
> moved from glibc to musl in-between, but in that case, precomputation could
> be done in postinst (i.e. as part of the post-installation-of-musl process).
> 
> 
> Alexis.

-- 
---
Larry McVoy           Retired to fishing          http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-06-21  0:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 160+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-06-13 14:56 [TUHS] Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-06-13 15:33 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
2024-06-13 15:35 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Larry McVoy
2024-06-13 15:41   ` Alan D. Salewski
2024-06-13 15:55   ` Steve Nickolas
2024-06-13 15:39 ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Clem Cole
2024-06-13 16:47   ` Arrigo Triulzi via TUHS
2024-06-13 18:39     ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-13 18:45       ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Mychaela Falconia
2024-06-14  8:59         ` Ralph Corderoy
2024-06-13 18:54       ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Dan Cross
2024-06-12 19:29         ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' " Greg A. Woods
2024-06-13 20:03           ` Dan Cross
2024-06-13 17:07             ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-14 14:17             ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2024-06-16  5:48               ` Alexis
2024-06-15  8:48                 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-16 19:44                   ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17  0:10                     ` Peter Yardley
2024-06-17  0:29                       ` Clem Cole
2024-06-17  1:01                   ` Alexis
2024-06-17  1:21                     ` Warner Losh
2024-06-17  1:25                     ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17  1:32                       ` Warner Losh
2024-06-17 19:21                       ` Stuff Received
2024-06-17 19:28                         ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 22:34                         ` Steve Nickolas
2024-06-16  7:57                           ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-17 23:44                             ` Warner Losh
2024-06-18  0:06                               ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-18 22:44                               ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-19  2:33                                 ` David Arnold
2024-06-18  1:52                             ` Steve Nickolas
2024-06-18  4:52                               ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-18 22:50                                 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-18 23:03                                   ` Warner Losh
2024-06-18 23:27                                     ` ron minnich
2024-06-19  1:38                                     ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2024-06-19  1:42                                       ` Warner Losh
2024-06-19 23:28                                         ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-20  5:01                                           ` Scot Jenkins via TUHS
2024-06-20  5:09                                             ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-20  5:18                                               ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-20 18:34                                             ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-20 18:41                                               ` Adam Thornton
2024-06-20 19:59                                                 ` Warner Losh
2024-06-20 20:12                                                   ` ron minnich
2024-06-20 20:22                                                     ` Adam Thornton
2024-06-20 20:29                                                     ` ron minnich
2024-06-21 15:46                                                     ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 16:06                                                       ` Henry Bent
2024-06-21 16:24                                                         ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 16:40                                                           ` Henry Bent
2024-06-21 16:52                                                             ` Warner Losh
2024-06-21 17:25                                                             ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 17:31                                                             ` Phil Budne
2024-06-21 17:55                                                               ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-20 20:19                                                   ` Clem Cole
2024-06-20 20:34                                                   ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-20 21:00                                                     ` ron minnich
2024-06-20 21:53                                                       ` David Arnold
2024-06-20 22:00                                                         ` ron minnich
2024-06-20 22:11                                                           ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-20 22:35                                                       ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-21 13:57                                                       ` Stuff Received
2024-06-20 19:57                                               ` [TUHS] Version 256.1: Now slightly less likely to delete /home Jim Capp
2024-06-20  8:05                                           ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register Steve Nickolas
2024-06-19  2:38                                     ` David Arnold
2024-06-19 22:52                                     ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-19  0:08                                   ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19  0:46                                     ` Nevin Liber
2024-06-19  1:00                                       ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-19  3:07                                       ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19  3:14                                         ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19  3:36                                           ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-19  6:50                                           ` arnold
2024-06-19 11:28                                             ` sjenkin
2024-06-19  9:00                                         ` Ralph Corderoy
2024-06-19 13:28                                       ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-19 14:44                                         ` Warner Losh
2024-06-19 14:53                                           ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-19 15:08                                             ` Warner Losh
2024-06-19 15:11                                             ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-06-19 15:16                                             ` ron minnich
2024-06-19 15:59                                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-19 22:48                                           ` Kevin Bowling
2024-06-20  5:14                                             ` David Arnold
2024-06-20  5:32                                               ` George Michaelson
2024-06-20  6:37                                                 ` Alexis
2024-06-20  7:07                                                   ` David Arnold
2024-06-20 21:07                                                   ` [TUHS] Building programs (Re: " Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-20 23:35                                                     ` [TUHS] " Alexis
2024-06-21  0:05                                                       ` Warner Losh
2024-06-21  0:34                                                         ` Alexis
2024-06-21  0:54                                                           ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-21  1:06                                                             ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-06-21  1:32                                                             ` Alexis
2024-06-21  1:43                                                               ` Warner Losh
2024-06-21 16:07                                                           ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21  0:35                                                       ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-21  1:15                                                         ` Alexis
2024-06-21  1:43                                                           ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-21 13:58                                                             ` Alan D. Salewski
2024-06-21  0:35                                                       ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2024-06-21  0:49                                                         ` Alexis
2024-06-21  1:22                                                           ` Greg A. Woods
2024-06-21  1:44                                                             ` Kevin Bowling
2024-06-21 15:57                                                       ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-22  0:04                                                         ` Alexis
2024-06-22 17:53                                                           ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-22 18:15                                                             ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-22 21:16                                                               ` David Arnold
2024-06-23  0:29                                                                 ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-06-23 18:50                                                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-23 18:56                                                               ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-23 20:15                                                                 ` Stuff Received
2024-06-24 14:03                                                                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-24 14:33                                                                     ` Dan Cross
2024-06-24 15:17                                                                       ` Warner Losh
2024-06-24 15:23                                                                   ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 15:41                               ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-21 15:38                           ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-06-20 20:14                       ` Alexander Schreiber
2024-06-16  6:43                 ` Wesley Parish
2024-06-16 21:56               ` David Arnold
2024-06-16 23:34                 ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-16 23:46                   ` Larry McVoy
2024-06-17 21:40                     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2024-06-17  0:54                 ` Åke Nordin
2024-06-18  5:55                 ` Alexis
2024-06-18  6:39                   ` Michael Kjörling
2024-06-13 19:37       ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Alan D. Salewski
2024-06-13 20:05         ` Clem Cole
2024-06-13 20:31           ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-06-13 20:06         ` A. P. Garcia
2024-06-13 20:26           ` Jim Capp
2024-06-13 21:35           ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Larry McVoy
2024-06-14  0:27         ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Alexis
2024-06-14  0:59           ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? " Larry McVoy
2024-06-14  1:11             ` Luther Johnson
2024-06-14  1:42             ` Alexis
2024-06-14  4:22               ` ron minnich
2024-06-14  6:54               ` Angel M Alganza
2024-06-14  7:04             ` Dave Horsfall
2024-06-14  7:33             ` arnold
2024-06-14  7:34             ` Andy Kosela
2024-06-14  7:44               ` Dave Horsfall
2024-06-14 11:31             ` Vincenzo Nicosia
2024-06-13 20:26     ` [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' • " Dave Horsfall
2024-06-14 11:32       ` Michael Kjörling
2024-06-14 12:21         ` A. P. Garcia
2024-06-18 12:02           ` Arrigo Triulzi via TUHS
2024-06-23  0:13         ` Dave Horsfall
2024-06-23  1:47           ` Alexis
2024-06-23 19:00             ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-23 20:04               ` Alexander Schreiber
2024-06-24 13:50                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-06-24 14:21                   ` Dan Cross
2024-06-26  7:39                     ` Kevin Bowling
2024-06-24 15:03                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso

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