From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4709B26929 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2024 03:39:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A26043E2B; Sun, 7 Jul 2024 11:39:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B47B243E2A for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2024 11:39:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: (qmail 56007 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2024 01:39:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=dac46689f1d6.k2407; bh=BNeB+VGBKIsdtzkD2sG7Zt39jtDUIyBUYM+9BPPHQgM=; b=P5+yJ/tPCT83MiHT6gllQ7FUarO/n4aUtyFo9Z1kKl+oB9DBBnuYTkzWvoqOVZsxvxZt8d1yF62ya5kKJcslTekBVaJJB8ywhm/oAj6nijzRkPoBWqxJ5b97sjlhvyK0DQ5r8AO211wCER4Q86V7IaK4CpCB94fgDa0mvyv+i1SeuMc4dfgXiAweW3JYHlX8xle/liISh1RjtiBP3v5athDRd/HkOKJh3RUiMnAHrVunwgH5eCRWwsvYIYMrRDDxw+HsO3pZLiqlmKgi30TkhyPc70uqx14T8BA3GaePhXBrHzaVinZx7nu34GqnCLhTh4G9wERWkUBNyDYrbosLDg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=dac46689f1d6.k2407; bh=BNeB+VGBKIsdtzkD2sG7Zt39jtDUIyBUYM+9BPPHQgM=; b=kYlrkxD7eiuJSJTg+xD5rxiixrt6yhPbIKkIPP/URxt7KZAiLfA4a2bm473BsqxZqztphcL2FmS1Emo6fO6hZR+jNqm3JW+d6zxcNkM4BAO0VUFLkM/QmPkHUtSUk1k8DNmWsx1WvZ/xxmtKgX+MPBSHx9Si/A53GNZImNLjzOu4p2/IFUxXTzmK53Ki7VZwPMQD5ZJnUDqDwuhWf2ktUm3mbiIHmBAVAhH+jvW2QfDNuEhZ93uN4UmG67Qfc4GvKsz4+q/7RL2EAsBSAPdSjl+CYn01rh2wp70VDxpJ7Zeq4sNmVd6JSSUCac0SmxaEep38clG2/MRbtk37BfRrvw== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA CHACHA20-POLY1305 AEAD) via TCP6; 07 Jul 2024 01:39:34 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5579F8EF1AA8; Sat, 6 Jul 2024 21:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: 6 Jul 2024 21:39:33 -0400 Message-Id: <20240707013933.5579F8EF1AA8@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: tuhs@tuhs.org In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks References: <20240705213804.550128EDF53C@ary.qy> <20240705214901.GR26356@mcvoy.com> <6DEE0364-13BF-4DDF-8B42-8EE9DE010211@canb.auug.org.au> <20240705231714.5F0E58EE123E@ary.qy> <6c797638-8fef-a587-0f73-cdb564568950@taugh.com> X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Message-ID-Hash: XKBKLXUMGJEKXHWFFWSBZVUKKZXWCXLP X-Message-ID-Hash: XKBKLXUMGJEKXHWFFWSBZVUKKZXWCXLP X-MailFrom: johnl@iecc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: mental architecture models, Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: It appears that Charles H Sauer (he/him) said: >I like the 80% explanation, but suspect PL.8 was really named PL.8 to go >along with the 801 processor architecture defined in Building 801 aka >Thomas J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights. There are probably >living Yorktown alumni that could be definitive. John Cocke said in a paper in IBM J R&D V44 #1/2, Jan 2000, p 50: The result [of the language design] was the PL.8 language, the ".8" implying that it had about 80% of the richness of PL/I. PL.8 bore the same relation to PL/I as the 801 architecture had to System/370. Not gonna argue with him. >I found PL/I quite usable as long as one kept it simple. But then, I >also found Fortran usable as long as one kept it simple. Regarding >Fortran portability, I did all my dissertation work on punched cards >using CDC Fortran on the 6400/6600 at the UT-Austin computation center. >I brought several boxes of cards to Yorktown and don't remember any >significant difficulty getting my simulator and other programs to run on >VM/370 there. The absence of pointers and structures in Fortran was >annoying. Eventually I used SNOBOL to quickly translate the Fortran to >PL/I (https://technologists.com/sauer/RESQPPP.pdf). For the most part Fortran could be pretty portable. The hard parts were when you were trying to get reliable numeric results in complex calculations, or you were doing stuff that Fortran didn't do very well like pre-F77 string handling. R's, JOhn