From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE082EF8D for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:04:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED17543CC1; Sun, 15 Dec 2024 04:04:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: from freefriends.org (frenzy.freefriends.org [198.99.81.75]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B600943CAC for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2024 04:04:46 +1000 (AEST) X-Envelope-From: arnold@skeeve.com Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 4BEI4K2e1726900 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:04:20 -0700 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 4BEI4K5c1726899; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:04:20 -0700 From: arnold@skeeve.com Message-Id: <202412141804.4BEI4K5c1726899@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: arnold set sender to arnold@skeeve.com using -f Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:04:20 -0700 To: lm@mcvoy.com, clemc@ccc.com References: <20241213155336.GV11590@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20241213155336.GV11590@mcvoy.com> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID-Hash: GEIHP7CFAZGWMNMKNLVHSH36GPJAUOBO X-Message-ID-Hash: GEIHP7CFAZGWMNMKNLVHSH36GPJAUOBO X-MailFrom: arnold@skeeve.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: BSD talk program? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: When my wife and I were dating, she was at U Penn in Philadelphia and I was at Emory in Atlanta. We occasionally used talk to chat in real time. :-) This was in 1989. Larry McVoy wrote: > I loved talk when CS was running BSD on a VAX. You could see who was on > and talk them. Very handy and it was sort of social. > > It's crazy how things were back then, open ports listening for all sorts > of things. I think we were pretty unaware of how nasty the internet would > get. > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:22:22AM -0500, Clem Cole wrote: > > As for the motivation -- it was simple. UCB is on a hill. I lived at the > > base of hill and I only wanted to walk up it once a day. Our office was a > > big pool of about 20 of us next to the CAD machine room on the second floor > > of Cory Hall. Somebody was usually in the office most nights, but not > > everyone. We all had modems and terminals at home, but only one phone > > line. We had 3 Vaxes in the CAD group, plus my Array Processor. So I > > wanted to be able to ask someone like Peter or TQ to reset the AP for me if > > I hosed it when I was working from home when I was debugging it. Plus > > the obvious social aspects -- "hey you want go get a Pizza/Beer etc..." > > But since we might be working on a different system, Kipps' hack was > > useless. > > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > > > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:14???AM Clem Cole wrote: > > > > > Yes -- I can give this history. > > > Kipp wrote an early version for 4.1BSD - but it is not the version in the > > > releases. It ran on Ernie and did not do as much. > > > I had used a different program on the PDP-10's and the ARPANET and I > > > started over when Joy added sockets for 4.1A. I also made the infamous use > > > of vax integers instead of network integers (and I knew better - but really > > > did not think about until a few years later when I was at Masscomp and > > > compiled it for the 68000 -- ugh). That version still had a couple of bugs > > > in it (i.e. hung in the 4.1A networking code occasionally), but worked well > > > enough on the CAD systems. I went away to a USENIX conference and while I > > > was gone, my officemate Peter (Moore) took my code and fixed the problem, > > > plus he put it into RCS. I gave that to Sam and that's the version that > > > went out in 4.1C and beyond. > > > > > > Clem > > > > > > > > > ??? > > > ??? > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 9:29???AM Dan Cross wrote: > > > > > >> I'm curious if anyone has any history they can share about the BSD > > >> "talk" program. > > >> > > >> I was fond of this back when it was still (relatively) common, but > > >> given the way it's architected I definitely see why it fell out of use > > >> as the Internet grew. Still, does anybody know what the history behind > > >> it is? Initially, I thought it was written by Mike Karels, but that > > >> was just my speculation from SCCS spelunking, and looking at the > > >> sources from 4.2, I see RCS header strings that indicate it was > > >> written by "moore" (Peter Moore?). talk.c says, "Written by Kipp > > >> Hickman". > > >> > > >> It seems to have arrived pretty early on with respect to the > > >> introduction of TCP/IP in BSD: the README alludes to some things > > >> coming up in 4.1c. Clem, you seem to have had a hand in it, and are > > >> credited (along with Peter Moore) for making it work on 4.1a. > > >> > > >> So I guess the question is, what was the motivation? Was it just to > > >> have a more pleasing user-to-user communications experience, or was > > >> discussion across the network an explicit goal? There's a note in > > >> talk.c ("Modified to run between hosts by Peter Moore, 8/19/82") that > > >> suggests this wasn't the original intent. Who thought up the > > >> character-at-a-time display mode? > > >> > > >> Thanks for any insights. > > >> > > >> - Dan C. > > >> > > > > > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat