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[35.134.121.0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a126sm2671777oif.28.2022.02.05.17.10.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Feb 2022 17:10:58 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5yb1X5B0AzwIJjr5vyip6GqJ" Message-ID: <21015c2c-2652-bbc3-dbd7-ad3c31f485a2@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 19:10:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Larry McVoy , Hellwig Geisse References: <20220201155225.5A9541FB21@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <202202020747.2127lTTh005669@freefriends.org> <7C19F93B-4F21-4BB1-A064-0307D3568DB7@cfcl.com> <1nFWmo-1Gn-00@marmaro.de> <1644006490.2458.78.camel@mni.thm.de> <20220206005609.GG3045@mcvoy.com> From: Will Senn In-Reply-To: <20220206005609.GG3045@mcvoy.com> Subject: Re: [TUHS] more about Brian... X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5yb1X5B0AzwIJjr5vyip6GqJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 2/5/22 6:56 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 09:28:10PM +0100, Hellwig Geisse wrote: >> Hi Thomas, >> >> On Fr, 2022-02-04 at 20:45 +0100, Thomas Paulsen wrote: >>> I tell you one thing: I never ever experienced any problems with >>> traditional malloc()/free().?? >> did you ever write a program which does heavy malloc()/free() >> on complicated (i.e., shared) data structures *and* runs for >> days, perhaps weeks? IMO it's very difficult to do this without >> a GC, and you have to exercise quite an amount of discipline >> to do it right. > I've done this and I've employed people who have done this. We're > a dieing breed, the focus seems to be on programming languages and > tools for idiots. People don't want to learn the discipline it takes > to work with malloc()/free(). It's sad. I completely agree. This is ridiculous. Do modern programmer's seriously think that the old code wasn't complex or robust? Sheesh, there's code out there that has run through more millions of transactions an hour for more years than most of these folks have been alive. There's also code that's been running without any updates, for decades. Most code written by the newbreed won't run for a month without surfacing dozens of bugs. Margaret Hamilton would prolly have some choice words for these folks. --------------5yb1X5B0AzwIJjr5vyip6GqJ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 2/5/22 6:56 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 09:28:10PM +0100, Hellwig Geisse wrote:

Hi Thomas,

On Fr, 2022-02-04 at 20:45 +0100, Thomas Paulsen wrote:

I tell you one thing: I never ever experienced any problems with
traditional malloc()/free().??

did you ever write a program which does heavy malloc()/free()
on complicated (i.e., shared) data structures *and* runs for
days, perhaps weeks? IMO it's very difficult to do this without
a GC, and you have to exercise quite an amount of discipline
to do it right.

I've done this and I've employed people who have done this.  We're
a dieing breed, the focus seems to be on programming languages and
tools for idiots.  People don't want to learn the discipline it takes
to work with malloc()/free().  It's sad.

I completely agree. This is ridiculous. Do modern programmer's seriously think that the old code wasn't complex or robust? Sheesh, there's code out there that has run through more millions of transactions an hour for more years than most of these folks have been alive. There's also code that's been running without any updates, for decades. Most code written by the newbreed won't run for a month without surfacing dozens of bugs. Margaret Hamilton would prolly have some choice words for these folks.


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