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[2603:6010:dc07:54e3:d034:380d:df07:e39b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f5sm4787152qka.19.2021.08.01.16.21.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Aug 2021 16:21:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Dan Cross References: <20210731142533.69caf929@moon> <40763c2d-52ad-eb01-8bf8-85acf6fee700@case.edu> From: Chet Ramey Organization: ITS, Case Western Reserve University Message-ID: <2322d5c2-19cc-d0e9-9a62-364138b9ba58@case.edu> Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:21:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=Good-1, source=Queried, refid=tid=0001.0A742F8D.61071F8E.000A, actions=tag X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A742F20.61072C70.001D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2016-11-06 16:00:04, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6b387da3708df4e559b5ac0476e8021c X-Mirapoint-IP-Reputation: reputation=good-1, source=Fixed, refid=n/a, actions=tag X-Junkmail-Status: score=8/80, host=mpv4-2015.case.edu X-Junkmail-PrAS-Raw: score=8/80, refid=2.7.2:2021.8.1.222115:17:8.317, ip=, rules=__YOUTUBE_RCVD, DKIM_SIGNATURE, __X_GOOGLE_DKIM_SIGNATURE, __X_GM_MESSAGE_STATE, __X_GOOGLE_SMTP_SOURCE, __HAS_REPLYTO, __HAS_CC_HDR, __MULTIPLE_RCPTS_CC_X2, __CC_NAME, __CC_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC, __SUBJ_REPLY, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NAME, __TO_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC, __TO_GMAIL, __HAS_REFERENCES, __REFERENCES, __HAS_FROM, FROM_EDU_TLD, __HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, DATE_TZ_NA, __USER_AGENT, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT, __MIME_VERSION, __IN_REP_TO, __CT, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN, __CTE, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ADDY, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ACC, __FROM_DOMAIN_IN_ANY_CC2, __RCPT_DOMAIN_NOT_TO, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_DOMAIN, __DKIM_ALIGNS_1, __DKIM_ALIGNS_2, __ANY_URI, __URI_MAILTO, __URI_WITH_PATH, __URI_ENDS_IN_SLASH, __URI_NO_WWW, __CP_MEDIA_BODY, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, __URI_IN_BODY, __URI_NOT_IMG, [TRUNCATED], so=2010-03-03 19:42:08, dmn=2016-08-03-0138 Subject: Re: [TUHS] Systematic approach to command-line interfaces X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: chet.ramey@case.edu Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 8/1/21 5:53 PM, Dan Cross wrote: > Thanks for the useful background information on existing solutions. > > If I understood the proposal correctly, it was that the program in question > would, itself, be the generator as described above. Perhaps it was coupled > with a standard structured format for consumption by the shell, which seems > like it would be useful for this sort of expansion. Yes, it would make writing generators easier. The rest of the process would change very little: determining the word to complete, determining the command name, breaking the edit line into words for the generator, invoking the generator through the appropriate mechanism, parsing the results, and processing the matches. From the shell's perspective, it's a minor change. > Of course, the process model in TOPS-20 was very different than in Unix, > and in that system, as soon as you typed the _name_ of a command it's image > was "run up" in your process. So the interactive help system was provided > by a running instance of the program itself. What I gathered from the > proposed model was that it involved multiple invocations of the program, > but with a special option that would trigger behavior informally described > as, "here's the context I've built so far; let me know what options are > available here." I don't know that it's terribly "Unixy", but I can see how > it would be useful for interactive use. Yes. None of this is very "Unixy", but people have gotten used to being able to use capabilities like completion. When you're running interactively, running additional processes when you're performing word completion isn't particularly expensive. Again from the shell's perspective, invoking one generator that executes a program with `--shell-help' isn't that much different or more expensive -- and simpler in some ways because you don't have to save any incremental parsing state -- than executing a shell function that runs several processes, mostly command substitutions. Chet -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet@case.edu http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/