From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19737 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2020 18:41:07 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Jul 2020 18:41:07 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E3BF59C740; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 04:41:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DBC9C6B2; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 04:40:12 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kilonet.net header.i=@kilonet.net header.b="oo1TVKIj"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ABB6D9C6B2; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 04:40:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from p3plsmtpa09-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa09-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.232]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AD3C93D46 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 04:40:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from medusa.kilonet.net ([72.69.214.144]) by :SMTPAUTH: with ESMTPA id s9YdjVM1HMQ6xs9Yej1HTc; Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:40:08 -0700 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Pd6BeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=/ZwKS+J4t0aU1RkKSgdEcw==:117 a=/ZwKS+J4t0aU1RkKSgdEcw==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=xXawXKV18xFj-f-hUeIA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 X-SECURESERVER-ACCT: krewat@kilonet.net Received: from [199.89.231.101] (ender.kilonet.net [199.89.231.101]) by medusa.kilonet.net (8.14.8/8.15.1) with ESMTP id 065Ie7Z9005593 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kilonet.net; s=default; t=1593974407; bh=b+ccHdpVm4eHJB2Zyb8oCWvor10AX3a2fZ6URl6QtRg=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=oo1TVKIjPJWqmtyz4UQCTOzlTYCqJIom9PV+9q/qjmEkPIHMepOAbAxujegx7WP9I vJ+0aGczMAvlQMN38J3uJdMyMDYHlGjnnGxHezbS7vbhRHVysTEwZAQSPY8yjlGADK X15151nOdrh8Fa26unI0cIOGirdTrrdz5bp6zzEg= To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <4FC7FA55-5035-41A2-B52F-AE26DC8BED2C@planet.nl> <20200623140124.GR22291@mcvoy.com> <20200624193647.GB14302@mcvoy.com> <20200705144332.GR29318@mcvoy.com> From: Arthur Krewat Message-ID: <238b6e06-b6d9-20b0-a4d2-ed1207e3168a@kilonet.net> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:40:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200705144332.GR29318@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDlpaeJ/MqElFM7XoOrnpetyJZdjX6hdF5KziTEsQW2xt+SKRt4riimHI2x7eYPFI0rpnSXa3yCMPOf2/IILb+NTZdFl9SNTkJt+ehYsZNFsN4z9IKbA NWUJQ5iVwQrlT+Mjh/YpmfaP+BaZ+E4znnWb5G2CPfaxnBebsAo2iTxRjLyrNrccXoaIB3OhYoSiAw== Subject: Re: [TUHS] VFS prior to 1984 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 7/5/2020 10:43 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > So I've encountered lots of holes in NFS files where there shouldn't be > any. So it is/was a thing. But that said, I can't remember a single > case of encountering that on Sun's campus. I don't know if my memory > is failing me, but I do know that when I left Sun and started working > with other NFS implementations, yeah, lots of problems. Somehow Sun > got it right where other people didn't. I can say personally, since the early 90's on SunOS, I never ever saw this problem in a variety of environments. One being Nynex Science and Technology where I did a consulting stint. 800+ node Sun 3/4 SunOS workstation/server environment, basically everyone's desktop was a Sun workstation for email, documentation, whatever. Another being a defense contractor I was at for 7 years, they were all Sun for engineering workstations and servers. There is one possibility I just thought of, and that's if the first write fails and then a context switch happens, if enough free space is made available before the next context switch back to the second write, I can see that being a problem ;) As if you weren't already tired of my rambling... When it comes to non-Sun operating systems, all bets were off. They all (mostly) worked with their own kind. That usually wasn't the case when it came to cross-vendor support. Sun<->HP was not great, but that also may have been driver problems in the one instance I tried it for an extended period of time. Two instances at different customers of AIX<->Sun actually worked rather well. The YP integration was key. The entire problem with "holey" files and NFS is certainly related to the usage type of the system in question. What was Sun doing? Email? Software development? Using a common NFS share for the compiler? And then copying their code up to a central location? Not a lot of sync/write/sync/write activity, unless object file generation is a lot of skipping around all over the place. ;) art k.