From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11347 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2022 01:01:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Feb 2022 01:01:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 581F99D6D5; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:01:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA2A9B9F3; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:01:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b="c4A3bEA+"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3FB149B95E; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:01:09 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 384 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Wed, 02 Feb 2022 11:01:07 AEST Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (pb-smtp21.pobox.com [173.228.157.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 849A09B95E for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:01:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AC2177316 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:54:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ylee@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h= mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references; s=sasl; bh=+4F90sL EkrUDZeU1SgrwEZmyvGdB1IiN0T7UpfzBA9E=; b=c4A3bEA+F6EV0wpH5rJY4QJ YG6pItnTG2jbqLMrHUjBRiWCMYuyMfvq5PzeTnHVgxVejsyLr7C+iimHS9R+FR/W f6252CDccO6yquXbajIQaKcpRk0kktxkeYNqy5gN7kh3BMyNLcK3FKVRaAlrdTQr DoHMepJD7OKltc+zRSgI= Received: from pb-smtp21.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F496177315 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:54:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ylee@pobox.com) Received: from dobie-old.ylee.org (unknown [173.228.16.228]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD6FC177310 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 19:54:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ylee@pobox.com) Received: by dobie-old.ylee.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 0028C238050; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:54:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <25081.54863.862763.202747@dobie-old.ylee.org> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:54:39 -0800 From: Yeechang Lee To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org In-Reply-To: <7660.1643754614@cesium.clock.org> References: <20220201181909.6224518C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <7660.1643754614@cesium.clock.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 23.2.1 (i686-redhat-linux-gnu) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: B40BEC42-83C2-11EC-AF5F-CBA7845BAAA9-11431884!pb-smtp21.pobox.com Subject: Re: [TUHS] ratfor vibe X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Erik E. Fair says: > With regard to programming languages at UCB in 1980 ... > > I'd done something of a survey of colleges, and in my mind at the > time, there were two approaches to a CS degree: mostly or entirely > theoretical (those CS departments that had grown out of Mathematics > tended to have this focus), or more practical > tools/techniques/operational theory (those CS departments that had > grown out of Engineering tended to be this way). Quoting my 2019 message to the cctech mailing list: ---- Adam Thornton says: > The genealogy of Computer Science departments (and their curricula) > (at least in the US) is also weird and historically-contingent. > Basically it seems to have been a tossup at any given school whether > it came out of the Electr[ical|onic] Engineering department, in > which case it was memories and logic gates and a bottom-up, > hardware-focused curriculum, or out of the Mathematics department, > in which case it was algorithms and complexity analysis and a > software-focused curriculum. Yes, I've noticed the same thing. Example: Harvard's CS department is originally from the math side, while MIT's is from EE (thus today's EECS). Berkeley = EE Brown = Math BYU = Math Caltech = EE Columbia = EE Cornell = Operations research, math Dartmouth = Math Illinois = Math NYU = Both (because Polytechnic developed its own CS program long before NYU acquired it to regain an engineering school) Penn = EE UCLA = OR (probably because of the RAND heritage) Caltech until very recently did not formally offer CS degrees; students received degrees in Engineering and Applied Science, with a focus on CS (or aeronautics, or civil, or ME). Illinois is an example of a track we might call "other" or even "defense". With government funding the university built its own computers (including ILLIAC and PLATO), and the group that did so became the CS department, but the undergraduate CS program began within the math department. Harvard's and Penn's programs might also qualify. Undergraduate CS degrees are BA (Example: Harvard), BS (Example: Penn), or both (Example: Columbia). At Penn one must be an engineering student to major in CS. At Columbia one can major in CS in either the liberal arts or engineering schools, but with different curriculums. At Yale there is one undergraduate school, within which one can receive a BA or BS in CS, with different curriculums. Cornell, Northwestern, and Berkeley offer CS in their separate liberal arts and engineering schools; undergraduates receive BA or BS degrees with identical CS curriculums, with only other requirements differing. I've read that medical schools are good at teaching either pharmacology (drugs), or pathology (diseases); perhaps this is also because of the expertise/specialty of their early faculty members. ---- > Two paths to a computer science degree: A.B. CS from L&S, or > B.S. EECS from the College of Engineering (which you had to be > explicitly admitted to before you got there). Still true today. As I mention above, Berkeley's CS curriculum is identical regardless of the degree (or was the last time I checked), something not always true at other universities that offer multiple CS undergraduate degree options. -- geo:37.783333,-122.416667