From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id c84733db for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:51:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6EE66A246D; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 05:51:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5989A22C8; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 05:50:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BBE55A22A1; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:31:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net [45.33.28.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A67CA22A0 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:31:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from Contact-TNet-Consulting-Abuse-for-assistance by tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTPSA id wA7HUxEC008180 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 11:31:00 -0600 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1541611860; bh=22ih3U5CVToR5s0l+YiZ3a9MEljxSkxeuPKD4NsxnPo=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Disposition: Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:From: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:References:Reply-To: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Sender:Subject:To: User-Agent; b=dDMMxhnOsR9ZHkOr9zzQm1EI8DWYpSUX/unikw0MgLcozkghR53+VzAlRqNgbceVK ZDXyPYXnPFxFx+klwSxGhXzR+nQBv3WYkbXMeMbCCh4URHN0K6xWWgHjsX+ZUEferG NGlnSavCrzLxJxLaLYoBfY/fmcL733/9GoVivCDs= To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <0289fa26-d157-8a65-389e-61dd7a01fcc4@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <7d595808-fff7-4c1c-d969-362693ab2672@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <7e9e6546-6575-e4d5-caf8-52c504f5a953@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Organization: TNet Consulting Message-ID: <26af3c07-a35c-c464-4fc0-2c62556b8e95@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 10:30:58 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000503060908090003070706" Subject: Re: [TUHS] YP / NIS / NIS+ / LDAP X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Grant Taylor via TUHS Reply-To: Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000503060908090003070706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11/07/2018 04:37 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Not really.=C2=A0 You go past the bouncer as an immediate consequence o= f=20 > authorization. I disagree. To me these are two very distinct things. I view authorization as a low pressure yes / no answer to should this=20 access be allowed or not. The access control (bouncer) is the high pressure and high risk exposed=20 surface that people beat on to try to force their way in. Much like how a low base current can control a high collector current on = a transistor. > The third 'A' is normally accounting: the bouncer notes the time you=20 > entered in the visitors book or logbook, and sometimes also notes the=20 > time you leave. Just about every network access service does this, and= =20 > "access control" is the whole AAA thing combined. I'll agree that accounting, or logging, is desired. But many of the=20 bouncers that I've seen don't do any logging (accounting) at all. They=20 simply enforce the decisions of other people (entities). s/bouncer/security guard/ and I'll agree that logging (accounting) is=20 typically done. Does a turn stile do any logging? Or does it simply allow somebody=20 through if they provide the token? > Have you ever seen a system that confirmed authentication and=20 > authorisation but then denied access (other than through a fault)? My ignorance does not preclude such from existing. Think about someone approaching a checkpoint: 1) They must authenticate themselves. 2) They must be authorized to pass. 3) The retractable tank traps (meant to be robust enough to stop a=20 speeding car) must be retracted. #3 is the access control that is independent of #1 & #2 as well as takes = time to move. I view the access control as the physical (or logical) barrier that=20 allows or prevents things based on input of others. > Denying access would be by a (possibly temporary) denial of authorisati= on. I disagree. You are still authorized. You are still permitted to do=20 $theThing. Reusing the a tank trap comparison, does the drivers authentication or=20 authorization status change between the time the guard says "Okay" and=20 the time the driver leaves the check point? The access control takes=20 time to execute, namely the time it takes the guard to initiate=20 retracting the tank trap and the time it takes for the tank trap to=20 retract. This entire time the driver is still authenticated and still=20 authorized. But access is still being prevented. --=20 Grant. . . . unix || die --------------ms000503060908090003070706 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CxcwggUpMIIEEaADAgECAhAIzwdZriPvq7FXSbc0jGReMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGXMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE9MDsGA1UEAxM0Q09NT0RPIFJTQSBD bGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTAeFw0xNzExMTcwMDAw MDBaFw0xODExMTcyMzU5NTlaMCsxKTAnBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWGmd0YXlsb3JAdG5ldGNvbnN1 bHRpbmcubmV0MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAvhfMhFM6CDAWL4Mg xrKLLbzTCILpI7uBzgG/HFXxV92MX4fba+pAotqOV8of7uF4YykVw94lCsOmFeVkb8VNSn6Q KSFbfnjXmYgU7XRtFHioTZihIynEXXI1LPMhnDXV9jCEzVvrlBx/6mSPdQcWhG1oMAlGd62w 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