From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19366 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2021 22:42:01 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Feb 2021 22:42:01 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E38669C772; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:41:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249FD9BA45; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:41:48 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="UU4K1W58"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1C2D89BA45; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:41:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com (mail-oi1-f175.google.com [209.85.167.175]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 883FD9BA40 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:41:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id k204so3895337oih.3 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:41:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=5tSvTNOLNSRwyraccSECpMRikunkp0M3Nyo3VG4RH+A=; b=UU4K1W58qXfScW+KVOf/IX95+cG5Uzbb0FKIIdv+PYEcRaJfL3uMR+XxvV+gnb1JE4 0qq+JcO/QQXorIDv/6tnuOQNKkqoJDW/ZDz+JYD6AS9QR/GL39G0zFZ0oAnSxQZeISrR k9didqGwfb3tfg0AnW46P2FaVXEKW6wKrnrBmQBBAtN5rsqfgWaIwHPE/H14e4UIbYL1 XAqg1rmDDtSLzCi5ov+0393kKI4hGaO2jpJ60hYD0PfjSiMhW6kCUaXazjE48xe2KEC9 gqD9pywKB+glP8kfkCIhne9B6a/6vXGs7gwKRAohbUixv/VffIofmY3gyNFZ3yUOYHgO Cdng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=5tSvTNOLNSRwyraccSECpMRikunkp0M3Nyo3VG4RH+A=; b=lplcuGKupsPiOsdr09j+mvyc+xa3Ly4hIUJUFeiXVDJs4nQvMd/xoGfwn0v/d7NIcU LjHWUofJRtp/egHKrSGJLQFzHLocBub/8rZkhaRwY+CZ+1yvjLUA8zuA+SLMyS2Ars6k Bej0DpRLds9oAfyko6pmPqGlQgL7g8tan3HzBE/pLYeiV9HbND6CEHZHGfVO3UprhZP0 eZZYG7EzFVCoD/eoWMtHQVuo/IiOjPtz06gHflU/pyw/6c/UQ7h8MdInMdyn6+gRz4bG yfNh/nz5heepOQ2Pu7xPC0/P7fa1tuKsA35kafteoqlgLJkqULd148CyMUSj/fXmc1/e 1Rsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532LeWGktINboIdpkVW1WmlKt7IixIe1KVyZsp2WEL+MvCvi/msF bJDpnun/9h2Q375FRA353PbPpmXodmAseYY/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwJ68K1ILZ33DKQXtL6SQGHhet1Zw3Aqrwib29EVdvPtCsnkf4YHNvyRYAAibbXmLLbaUTTOg== X-Received: by 2002:aca:5f44:: with SMTP id t65mr1232539oib.46.1612478503471; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknowna45e60f0be01.attlocal.net (172-125-77-130.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [172.125.77.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d3sm1399293ooi.42.2021.02.04.14.41.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:41:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bakul Shah Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.40.0.2.32\)) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:41:40 -0800 References: <46DC5B33-1F08-4DAE-ACAC-4318DB1498DA@iitbombay.org> To: TUHS main list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2855D44B-F428-49A1-8A7C-C64156385669@iitbombay.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.40.0.2.32) Subject: Re: [TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:28 PM, George Michaelson wrote: > > Basically Larry, I think you are kindof wrong. These alumni of yours > did what all kids should do: they ran ahead. Did they scrape their > knees doing it? Sure. But if they don't try things their teachers say > are bad, how do they advance the art? If we'd listened to Eddy > Dijkstra, we'd never have got BGP: He said it couldn't scale, even > though it was based on his own work. I think Larry is talking about ZFS *implementation* design choices; which we, as ZFS users, mostly don't care about! It was OSPF, not BGP, that used Dijkstra's SPF algorithm. The last I knew BGP was all about "policy" -- why random bad actors can sling half of the internet traffic through China or Vanuatu or whatever.