From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10835 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2022 09:03:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Nov 2022 09:03:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27F041DE7; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 19:03:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from lists.tip.net.au (lists.tip.net.au [203.10.76.3]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8013E41DD3 for ; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 19:03:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (219-90-191-162.ip.adam.com.au [219.90.191.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.tip.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4N6fBD3yJPz9QSF; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 20:02:43 +1100 (AEDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: steve jenkin In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 20:01:25 +1100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <29942374-F162-43EE-9F65-D51C79B4D7B4@canb.auug.org.au> References: <992562BA-E21F-4542-A50B-6CFE8F7ACE86@planet.nl> <20221011134842.GA11780@mcvoy.com> <20221011195447.GI11780@mcvoy.com> <8583490b-c7cc-4633-b506-2f16335fd3e2@home.arpa> <20221011201025.GJ11780@mcvoy.com> <513e8a46-bd31-420a-bfdf-b59451f89c8d@home.arpa> <0db171e4-7efe-8c00-bb30-a6f914cf9911@technologists.com> To: Dan Cross X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Message-ID-Hash: SZPNQEQZTJFDLTUIQIZYY7A5BC3HIOPT X-Message-ID-Hash: SZPNQEQZTJFDLTUIQIZYY7A5BC3HIOPT X-MailFrom: sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Marc Donner , TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: LOC [was Re: Re: Re.: Princeton's "Unix: An Oral History": who was in the team in "The Attic"? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: > On 9 Nov 2022, at 19:41, Dan Cross wrote: >=20 > To tie this back to TUHS a little bit...when did being a "sysadmin" = become a thing unto itself? And is it just me, or has that largely been = superceded by SRE (which I think of as what one used to, perhaps, call a = "system programmer") and DevOps, which feels like a more traditional = Unix-y kind of thing? >=20 > - Dan C. In The Beginning, We were All Programmers=E2=80=A6=20 Machines were smaller, programs simpler and we were closer to the = hardware. Literally, like the =E2=80=9CUnix Room=E2=80=9D, in the Attic at Bell = Labs. Admin & Operations weren=E2=80=99t too onerous and =E2=80=9CMaintenance=E2= =80=9D was done by the people doing the kernel & systems software, at a = guess. And maybe hardware was fixed by the Vendor, or super-programmers did the = plug and play themselves. As sites got bigger, work became multi-person project =E2=80=99teams=E2=80= =99 and admin problems got tricker, while =E2=80=98certain people=E2=80=99= did the work. When Unix became properly commercial - multiple vendors, big manuals, = support contracts, and a plethora of Unix variants - some Bright People = created =E2=80=9CUnix Training=E2=80=9D courses, in many topiocs. Somewhere around this time, courses and job titles for =E2=80=9CSystem = Admin=E2=80=9D appeared. Sadly, all this happened without any distinctions in capability & = =E2=80=98levels=E2=80=99, or actual problem solving testing (cf = CISCO=E2=80=99s CCIE: 2 days of testing, 1st day quizzes on a PC, 2nd = day is by invitation. Lab session: =E2=80=9Cfix the broken network in = the allotted time=E2=80=9D) SAGE - System Admin Guild, part of USENIX - put together a bunch of = small books on (Unix) System Admin Topics and tried to guide the = development of the field. After 10 years, I was out of the loop and hadn=E2=80=99t seen anything = positive in the workplace. SRE roles & as a discipline has developed, alongside DevOps, into = managing & fault finding in large clusters of physical and virtual = machines. Never done it myself, but it=E2=80=99d seem the potential for screw-ups = is now infinite and unlimited in time :) -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design=20 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin