From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21605 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2023 16:38:02 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Jan 2023 16:38:02 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D350423BC; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 02:37:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oa1-f52.google.com (mail-oa1-f52.google.com [209.85.160.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B194423BA for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 02:37:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oa1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-15b9c93848dso27770195fac.1 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:37:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=d6iYZJemMpWMO5uCsWjFKcDDjaFyGg6H0egPQVzBnys=; b=DiKYOiccSwbQHRJ3vvq5tAUccx1EdqCPJB2dSYsG0rOBGmn+ygLogTozVtsUHJAjsC u63G+L/l9FxolHTx0DhantUXzCDu3LqMeGWOAQRX69g/ocXYNB2iPHP4hMEtiKFY+WKN n1RgMFeG9xiFtNC3+zntSj4xX2bO1f84jHm1+1QPT7tC96iyoH98suI7neHHbt0ieDl9 RONKUBENks95/4FPu9v5ST1e+BqZ5VyQaJcAnB4dV2PGZbdS72htCZEltcTd6JUC524w hj4kbndt6M0ctx6ruqdEbOrkZJeLLk0Fsh/0AlAAVNRSB9Q0HRVXYhRVrA/Zj6TDEVdu tTVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=d6iYZJemMpWMO5uCsWjFKcDDjaFyGg6H0egPQVzBnys=; b=vGfKOwddXEDqktu3Qy7jTiM8v2ADlUSE8HspiKCf2FPguMvfcIuUnQAKmUJgtH2zlB vwn9Oe4xJU3SWY9k599FO6uh77ZLWGLAtVH1Knu4PIiaZ83+S74+LZDNXxnGhMxX8phz x83P90s1dhHhmNnJwsFZmOZjWUOxxQzOJWozGYSCy7qrW79s0Lm+XL8ZeEYDLcVhXRkM Qm6upE5Pw3JHzY+MeqbhWRMhUhT6G26YLn2oz8/wMSX8/XR1MdgURRVDErf3whfaaNis lCIxZLUK94+/tANqFncMYPflgpj3khnTA6sdH9buMIGoBIRpDV8j99Ra0MOwB69FZDVf Dftg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqdsKt1o6zk+LoTdCKUOUiSzQVMkmSCIqAV8eyCtA1wIJD3SaGy mFj23srHLN6MGsbUxPSO3R8LUFn738c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXtCwR35/q652J+PJVMsssE3OszX4vA6ynBV10kHoLCGgBelvpO7efVWhNWOdS57Tjv0EhXVRg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:4809:b0:15e:a1af:491e with SMTP id qc9-20020a056871480900b0015ea1af491emr4295411oab.59.1674059809941; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.0.2] ([145.14.135.198]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o10-20020a4aabca000000b004f22e40ad6fsm10521576oon.2.2023.01.18.08.36.49 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Jan 2023 08:36:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <2f00f9a6-c57d-8490-4066-931ec6e191cd@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:36:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Content-Language: en-US To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> From: Will Senn In-Reply-To: <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID-Hash: QIF6VIZOZFYUTZYOUODCNLQAOW6YQ4ZI X-Message-ID-Hash: QIF6VIZOZFYUTZYOUODCNLQAOW6YQ4ZI X-MailFrom: will.senn@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Larry, I disagree, but only time will tell. I don't think BSD is dead is really a fair statement, unless you're referring to the actual distribution. As a line, I think it's still viable (I run it in several flavors and it works, much more reliably than most linuxes which I also run in multiple flavors). That said, everybody :) it seems, seems to be on the Linux is the future bandwagon with seemingly only a few of us holdouts. Just a couple of days ago I spun up a TrueNAS instance and it was glorious - of course it was CORE, try that with SCALE :). It does seem like the wave favors Windows, Mac, and Linux... But, just cuz they're popular doesn't mean the less popular OSes are dead (I say this as I gaze fondly over towards my KIM-1 clone and think of Monitor. Will On 1/18/23 10:19 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > Pretty unrealistic to expect the users to suddenly have the time to do > kernel dev. Solaris opened sourced itself and it's dead. > > It's a lot of work to maintain and evolve an OS. Windows, MacOS, and > Linux seem like the future. > > As for BSD, they pretty much killed themselves by all the in-fighting and > the lack of someone like Linus. That was obvious 30 years ago and it > hasn't changed. That's why I switched from BSD to Linux. > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 04:10:34PM +0000, segaloco wrote: >> I just hope we'll see some attempts at opening up these code bases as time goes on. Seeing as they're no longer going to be pushing new copies and will eventually ramp down maintenance releases, opening up the source would give their end users the ability to potentially float their own improvements if they can't immediately migrate to Linux or BSD. That said, security implications of course, don't want to just hand bad actors a code base to comb for memory unsafety in. >> >> Also this article is BSD erasure :(, no mentions of the big three save that OpenServer and Darwin have chunks of FreeBSD in them. I guess Berkeley is just chopped liver... >> >> - Matt G. >> >> ------- Original Message ------- >> On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 7:14 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: >> >> >>> It makes perfect sense, it's a repeated story, commercial loses out >>> to free. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 08:13:13AM -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >>> >>>> Interestingly enough, Phil Hughes, who founded Linux Journal >>>> in the early 1990s, predicted that this would happen one day. >>>> This was in a private conversation we had. I thought he >>>> was crazy, but he was right. >>>> >>>> arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/17/unix_is_dead/ >>>>> >>>>> FYI. >>>>> >>>>> Arnold >>> >>> -- >>> --- >>> Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat