From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25619 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2022 17:16:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 15 Jul 2022 17:16:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E984406F1; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 03:15:49 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1657905349; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=o3naRuedaY0nRadEv6tgyanK7M451v7CDU1e80LNQAo=; b=ar4FeLihd4igseruaB2xoCnd9WJwbfvP5qtq0j5GU1wUy20X66TkMHNextmgqAbJ6MtF1I VrzoBHxajhPUhBS4eVNpnbr/jZTLEPK0WkpOWW8uB07+9T3BBjOnEItqEJsT7qAtAtrjZJ DW7AJ2Luoib3aluqF5ku64Cu2N4O94w= Received: from mail-40137.protonmail.ch (mail-40137.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.137]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04942406E6 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 03:15:40 +1000 (AEST) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:15:31 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1657905338; x=1658164538; bh=o3naRuedaY0nRadEv6tgyanK7M451v7CDU1e80LNQAo=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To: Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=gglIyDGM0FAYiEx9xxE+AH2hEVwXkegUzojZOOdGOmfCMe5z7DSDvexG2CRnDZ+pE Bs3vsQIz183M9DynS5R1C77i7xmC+PizslhERMy8EedRb3rxTLot1nEs7vo8XyuUQM QmMc86p26mKrA8Jldf50D4lF8Z7akzOxwHlQj6JCer4z1ZDuPY7wUW4IcPv1UlpRZq PD7kdUlIC3E1hqmKHRDKZd3QKT7DVYzK4h6xh7wUqlUUrq20ztb6X/E32//nN5/u+q N3fdoV6xjeHMRVerJe5HR2aNQ4ebB7jzM2fqTs40Twtl9mDwlCeCJUqiKkI/QzcJzW WOs603YMlCyDQ== To: Paul Ruizendaal Message-ID: <2hK72A6Itq5yUS4eqzueKuU8hSC1JCR3XQbiHWTXnp-VS1V-eItyJ1gscCj2QR-0knXF7ukWVBxxzrC6e4TaN86l_2WAYK1eGrae2cskPb4=@protonmail.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: UA2O2SF4IETVPTSREQZKSVVTIW5GI7FX X-Message-ID-Hash: UA2O2SF4IETVPTSREQZKSVVTIW5GI7FX X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] V8 4BSD or 32V Based? (was: Unix V8 Chaosnet, any takers?) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco Re-subject'd as this part of the conversation diverges. Found the quote that I was thinking of when I said that: https://yarchive.net/comp/bsd.html "Research Unix 8th Edition started from (I think) BSD 4.1c, but with enormo= us amounts scooped out and replaced by our own stuff." - Dennis Ritchie The "I think" adds some murkiness for sure. There's definitely a good chun= k of code from 4BSD. Compare init, getty, locore.c (as opposed to .s in V7= back). Heck, even the main.c between the two kernels are more similar to = each other than V7. I would almost opt towards calling that being rebased = on 4BSD rather than V7 with bits and pieces of BSD added. I could see it b= eing more beneficial to start with 4BSD and tack on necessary Bell bits rat= her than take V7/32V and try and shoehorn in the VM implementation for VAX. The 4.1cBSD copy on the archive does appear to be pretty different, so in t= erms of raw comparison, I suspect the basis is 4BSD rather than 4.1cBSD. I= don't know that we have a clean copy of 4.1BSD gold, I'd be interested to = see if the structure of the source code changed between 4.1 and 4.1c, as 4.= 1c does exhibit the new organization by the BSD folks, 4BSD still shows fol= ders like cmd, lib, and so on. Not trying to be combative by any means, but I've been doing a bit of resea= rch lately into when V8 was snapped from BSD and where Bell and Berkeley th= en diverged from that last major confluence, especially with a focus on ini= t and other early stages of userland. - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, July 15th, 2022 at 1:51 AM, Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote: > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 17:51:39 +0000 > > From: segaloco segaloco@protonmail.com > > > > Given V8 being rebased on 4(.1?)BSD, I suspect the path of least resist= ance would be to just start grafting V8 code onto the working 4.1BSD. > > > I doubt that V8 is "rebased on 4(.1?)BSD": in my understanding it ported = some code from 4xBSD, but it is a different code base. > > As I currently understand it, the V8 kernel: > > - is a further development from 32V > - retains the code organisation of the V5..32V versions > - adds virtual memory code from BSD > - adds select() from BSD > > and then adds all the V8 innovation on top of that (streams, file system = switch, virtual proc file system, networking, remote file system, support f= or the Blit terminal, etc.) > > In particular in the area of networking the V8 kernel is organised quite = differently from the 4xBSD kernel, including the Chaosnet driver (i.e. it i= s streams based). > > Paul