From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1d6748ca for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 22:29:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B8DD19B913; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:29:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C759B8FA; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:29:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5F4FD9B8FA; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:28:59 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 391 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:28:58 AEST Received: from kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (kvm5.telegraphics.com.au [98.124.60.144]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11FE9B8F9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:28:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from macpro.local (unknown [10.210.249.17]) by kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709772972E for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 17:22:25 -0500 (EST) To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <20190214192940.ED58418C0AB@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <1b71e45e-5711-ee8d-2bc8-4ea6298311dd@solar.stanford.edu> <201902142037.x1EKbpnR017241@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Toby Thain Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=toby@telegraphics.com.au; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFVqRckBCACdUBQ565VYFZgKu+JjAeV2T/QIITeO+kPhViKuWooJADKB0Xra+AUSilML bmLYIPE1ZAWU3b12q0IxofU9wLe2AyQ/KIrUN891Fydhdsg6xVXRITrDobHUTyMQ8KlXMXO4 zsUq5TtlNkNbHOw6WCyoRpWUYJ1otpWVnjKLJFsvbSgtdjn2fZOLHL00wjZL+oYsFcx7aiYg bRQ7oO7nnDz7NyM/gsGWJazFLpZs1tuJSjR/ruYHCqyCa3VX1FaquVrHPkOWg0D5npDaSCWX 3OgbrarP75l43DLBuROuSJkZvLs41jrkhFeFSik2nZUwiSZWzsWAUMGMGCbGU2LljArzABEB AAHNL1RvYnkgVGhhaW4gKE1hYyBQcm8pIDx0b2J5QHRlbGVncmFwaGljcy5jb20uYXU+wsCP BBMBAgA5AhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBAVB4kPONsxSK13M05k7tV74 aS2yBQJb7srkAAoJEJk7tV74aS2yhZ0IAIB0xPUNyDPf0euMXBV6c0Of0DF7Xvg/z3322jWP sHSyIcv2+Th4cByNjUC/IdMmwLWLKGclN/t8arDLl2UaT3FgPUCZLHP+SYgtkdyw4iXhByD4 wl8E23IU08tq9MouO9IQ9PJs0szkBS/HorAaK1dHt01HyuF72Batb6RTtvNYz4LIr6ECwgAS geRSt1olUds3pXPgwZYD/l4NAJOwDuKTtNGo0867zUn82703wWnLC4BupvcMs31jI4GJU6Nl wuVEpo3KQbaEJiaddTGkMGwOlSaPaDc6/6bl62X0LmJL9JCDefudqJEe23HjQVrwqZbJ6hZG vgLmjwH8SKAl/xHOwE0EVWpFyQEIALgVpxkG/EwDLpu3l3qPGzwdoUVh1ciunWc8N7h4n+0y H90BtCjhDR96tOpfCDOpNA9iazOHdSPDaoufEdvbSZCAAFZwOom6xVKMv0SnYB7CPXdVrb7K F9PgJlQ1LKKapCQYsOAaOb3V1nNfz8UvU0o7CUUa6ko/DCCR9+QiqsrPbErS4L4RbU4yuxcb 1rE0g83fiom/ypG/2z+6d0z8HX5oG6PLqpbAJ56a+UtGDMFvpKVkI8au93YMDCyUa8KGgsfc GWpVaxab8YkJOIgpEEaPRa5meo/UFFxfF8SmIoSiHfrMbNx83Vl0FCexuoKhNOOF2A3F+q+D i+5Q7TtkHMkAEQEAAcLAXwQYAQIACQUCVWpFyQIbDAAKCRCZO7Ve+Gktso0VB/0cNfygjw1u k/JE/xIa0D+oD+lYhjIS40v9aazGmwihGjZi29YWw6njh60j8eUu8FSmB2Rl1eLWGTG2TGz9 u3gOHpniymeeFAWPqRUVJRHRSeDxdJaV7Nx3KGysjeTj2IRHA7gU2SHClrWFZ0g5Vy75oOCk 2VeCNC7kN7PemGIlgu4zOqDDX/jUlrUoUAqTaoT4MAQNuG8dyLyE3sfrC4n7qbG1TxUGTXuS LFphJQSDcvn0WAdolwTZ3YT8cwq2KrQDbmESg425J8cdqmaMI5mJgucWf4tmAEMyjde1jRYh oQDyMgQXXY/+QvS5a7dpz4l9UZwz1bXTr32jJ/+UKrHM Message-ID: <33ce5850-f0b5-1fa9-d459-58d4e2416e80@telegraphics.com.au> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 17:22:24 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201902142037.x1EKbpnR017241@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] Women in computing X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2019-02-14 3:37 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: > Deborah Scherrer writes: >> There have been several studies. As I remember, girls in school do >> indeed receive as much encouragement in computers as do males. And >> girls do indeed have access to as many resources as males. So the >> studies came to no conclusions. >> >> My personal thought is that, in high school, it's the "nerd" factor. If >> I were back in high school and saw the kind of guys that are getting >> into computers now, I would stay a thousand miles away from them and >> that field. But, alas, I don't think anyone has tried to research that >> idea... >> >> And/or: I have a friend who was a professor of CS in Amsterdam. She had >> many grad students of both sexes. She says she had to practically force >> the women to stay in the field. They would see the guys getting overly >> focused on the computer details themselves, completely overlooking the >> goals of the project. The women would get frustrated and complain to >> the professor. She would have to convince them that the guys just did >> that, and that the women should stay on track. >> >> I do admit, I have a husband who does that. Personally, I have ALWAYS >> looked at computers as a tool to accomplish something grander than just >> being a computer. But I am usually out-shouted. ;-) > > I think that many of us old folk on this list started out in a time when > getting a computer to be a computer was an accomplishment. But I agree > that enough of that has been done that using computers as tools subservient > to larger goals is where the bulk of the work exists today. > > There's a theory that sounds superficially plausible to me, which is that > women leave the field because they're more responsible than men. The theory I was REALLY hoping gender essentialism wouldn't be enlisted in this thread. Oh well. > is that women think more about whether a profession will provide them with > the security and stability necessary to support a family. ... > > Jon >