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* [TUHS] v8 shell
@ 2023-01-22  7:38 Rob Pike
  2023-01-22 14:52 ` [TUHS] " arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2023-01-22  7:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Found this tweetstream, here folded together, when looking for something
else (now lost) in my twitter archive:

==========

Things I miss from the v8 shell.

1) All shell output was valid shell input.

2) Typing dir/cmd would find the command $PATH/dir/cmd. Subdirectories of
your bin, in other words.

3) Functions were exportable. For one brief shining POSIX meeting, that was
true in POSIX too but then...

4) The implementation was lovely and easy to understand. (No, it wasn't
shalgol. Bourne fixed that for us.)

5) That I could learn things from it, like how to write a recursive descent
parser.*

6) It ran in cooked mode.

As expected, all that work making it a great shell is lost to history.
https://t.co/IzApAUSmzN is silent. Well, the code is released now.


==========

-rob

* elegantly.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: v8 shell
  2023-01-22  7:38 [TUHS] v8 shell Rob Pike
@ 2023-01-22 14:52 ` arnold
  2023-01-23 14:45   ` [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell) Brian M Zick
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2023-01-22 14:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs, robpike

Geoff Collyer has made the 9th edition shell available:

	http://www.collyer.net/who/geoff/v9sh.tar

Arnold

Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Found this tweetstream, here folded together, when looking for something
> else (now lost) in my twitter archive:
>
> ==========
>
> Things I miss from the v8 shell.
>
> 1) All shell output was valid shell input.
>
> 2) Typing dir/cmd would find the command $PATH/dir/cmd. Subdirectories of
> your bin, in other words.
>
> 3) Functions were exportable. For one brief shining POSIX meeting, that was
> true in POSIX too but then...
>
> 4) The implementation was lovely and easy to understand. (No, it wasn't
> shalgol. Bourne fixed that for us.)
>
> 5) That I could learn things from it, like how to write a recursive descent
> parser.*
>
> 6) It ran in cooked mode.
>
> As expected, all that work making it a great shell is lost to history.
> https://t.co/IzApAUSmzN is silent. Well, the code is released now.
>
>
> ==========
>
> -rob
>
> * elegantly.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell)
  2023-01-22 14:52 ` [TUHS] " arnold
@ 2023-01-23 14:45   ` Brian M Zick
  2023-01-23 14:49     ` Chet Ramey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Brian M Zick @ 2023-01-23 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: segaloco

> 6) It ran in cooked mode.

Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else: What does this phrase mean?

𝖇♦︎𝖒♦︎𝖟
*

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell)
  2023-01-23 14:45   ` [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell) Brian M Zick
@ 2023-01-23 14:49     ` Chet Ramey
  2023-01-23 15:51       ` Theodore Ts'o
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Chet Ramey @ 2023-01-23 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Brian M Zick, segaloco

On 1/23/23 9:45 AM, Brian M Zick wrote:
>> 6) It ran in cooked mode.
> 
> Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else: What does this phrase mean?

It did not perform line editing, so it did not change the terminal modes
and read one character at a time. If you only ever read a line at a time
from the terminal, you can let the terminal driver do that for you.


-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell)
  2023-01-23 14:49     ` Chet Ramey
@ 2023-01-23 15:51       ` Theodore Ts'o
  2023-01-23 15:53         ` Chet Ramey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Theodore Ts'o @ 2023-01-23 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chet Ramey; +Cc: segaloco

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 09:49:08AM -0500, Chet Ramey wrote:
> On 1/23/23 9:45 AM, Brian M Zick wrote:
> > > 6) It ran in cooked mode.
> > 
> > Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else: What does this phrase mean?
> 
> It did not perform line editing, so it did not change the terminal modes
> and read one character at a time. If you only ever read a line at a time
> from the terminal, you can let the terminal driver do that for you.

I've never been convinced by that particular argument, since if you
want command-line completion, the terminal driver is way too
low-level.

I suppose you could have callouts from the kernel to applications that
were willing to provide context-sensitive command-line completion
lists, which is how Multics handled things (trivia for the day: the
libss library used by Linux's e2fsprogs and MIT Kerberos v5's kadmin
interface uses an API inspired by Multics' subsystem library), but the
point is that you can't do it all in the terminal driver.

Cheers,

						- Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell)
  2023-01-23 15:51       ` Theodore Ts'o
@ 2023-01-23 15:53         ` Chet Ramey
  2023-01-23 20:40           ` Marc Donner
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Chet Ramey @ 2023-01-23 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Theodore Ts'o; +Cc: segaloco

On 1/23/23 10:51 AM, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 09:49:08AM -0500, Chet Ramey wrote:
>> On 1/23/23 9:45 AM, Brian M Zick wrote:
>>>> 6) It ran in cooked mode.
>>>
>>> Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else: What does this phrase mean?
>>
>> It did not perform line editing, so it did not change the terminal modes
>> and read one character at a time. If you only ever read a line at a time
>> from the terminal, you can let the terminal driver do that for you.
> 
> I've never been convinced by that particular argument, since if you
> want command-line completion, the terminal driver is way too
> low-level.

But that's the point: they don't.

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell)
  2023-01-23 15:53         ` Chet Ramey
@ 2023-01-23 20:40           ` Marc Donner
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Marc Donner @ 2023-01-23 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: chet.ramey; +Cc: segaloco

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_mode
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>


On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 10:53 AM Chet Ramey <chet.ramey@case.edu> wrote:

> On 1/23/23 10:51 AM, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 09:49:08AM -0500, Chet Ramey wrote:
> >> On 1/23/23 9:45 AM, Brian M Zick wrote:
> >>>> 6) It ran in cooked mode.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else: What does this phrase mean?
> >>
> >> It did not perform line editing, so it did not change the terminal modes
> >> and read one character at a time. If you only ever read a line at a time
> >> from the terminal, you can let the terminal driver do that for you.
> >
> > I've never been convinced by that particular argument, since if you
> > want command-line completion, the terminal driver is way too
> > low-level.
>
> But that's the point: they don't.
>
> --
> ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
>                  ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
> Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-01-23 20:42 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-01-22  7:38 [TUHS] v8 shell Rob Pike
2023-01-22 14:52 ` [TUHS] " arnold
2023-01-23 14:45   ` [TUHS] Re: Cooked Mode (v8 shell) Brian M Zick
2023-01-23 14:49     ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-23 15:51       ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-23 15:53         ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-23 20:40           ` Marc Donner

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