From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: rdonkin@bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:28:44 +0000 Subject: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Message-ID: <3A78919C.3D604E23@bigfoot.com> I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the question is what's easier to set up for networking. Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. Cheers, Richard Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32905 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32901 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:43:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin at bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D317941 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7894BA.370723F0 at bigfoot.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List Subject: [pups] File exchange with Supnik sim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I've tried the suggestions for getting files in and out of the Supnik sim, in particular using rl0 mapped to x.tar, and 'tar cvf /dev/rrl0a /etc/hosts'. However, tar complains: 'tar: tape write error: Read-only file system'. The disklabel for rl0 looks like: # /dev/rrl0a: type: old DEC disk: label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 20 tracks/cylinder: 2 sectors/cylinder: 40 cylinders: 0 rpm: 0 interleave: 0 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 1 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize] a: 10240 0 2.11BSD 1024 1024 # (Cyl. 0 - 255) cylinders/unit 0 Warning, revolutions/minute 0 boot block size 0 super block size 0 partition a: extends past end of unit 0 10240 0 Presumably I need to create a valid disklabel, but it would be good to have some advice on what a valid one would look like. I've also tried the same sort of thing with 'tar cvbBf 20 /dev/rmt0 /etc/hosts', and something like a tar file is produced - however, GNU tar on Linux and FreeBSD 4.2 tar can't read this, saying 'this doesn't look like a tar file'. Is there some trick to getting this to work, and am I better off using rl0 or rmt0? Richard Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33243 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix at wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33239 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog at lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 172826AC9E; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Richard Donkin Cc: PUPS List Subject: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator Message-ID: <20010201094448.D70596 at wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A78919C.3D604E23 at bigfoot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A78919C.3D604E23 at bigfoot.com>; from rdonkin at bigfoot.com on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:28:44PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Your message contained alternate long and short lines On Wednesday, 31 January 2001 at 22:28:44 +0000, Richard Donkin wrote: > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to > get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so > maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, > is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm > more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the > question is what's easier to set up for networking. The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it easier to use under FreeBSD. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything obvious, but it might take me a while. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33329 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33322 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms at moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms at localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0VNHsd17441 for pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" Message-Id: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441 at moe.2bsd.com> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it > networked. It can not be done except perhaps with a SL/IP link. The Supnik simulator does not have an emulated ethernet device. > Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as > the host I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not tried it with linux. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with > 2.11BSD? If so, Quite a few folks have it running. > could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more > complex to set up than Supnik. Yes, it is quite a bit more complex (cryptic) to set up. Here's what I use to run P11 with. If you strip out all of the macro preprocessing stuff the config file is much more readable and not nearly as cryptic as before. Steven Schultz sms at moe.2bsd.com ------------------ set clock_rate 60 ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 end ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 end ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 dev 1 ./junk 1999 end ctrl kl dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 end ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot end ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 end ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 # dev 0 /tmp/foo end ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 end # The toy clock. # ctrl toy 017777526 end Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA33890 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA33886 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f111bTR01279; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78BDD9.995B3F42 at tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101302330.PAA29420 at chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > > From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > > > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > > That's the problem. > > Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does > not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with > MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. > > ... When I looked last night at the machine assist (mch.s) for Ultrix-11/3.1 source, all I could easily find was consistent with this, contained in the V6 start document: The main difference between an 11/40 and an 11/45 (or 11/70) system is that in the former instruction restart after a segmentation violation caused by overflowing a user stack must be handled by software, while in the latter machines there is hardware help. which in more detail means, if I understand right, there is no SSR2 register in the MMU so the kernel code needs to disassemble the instruction to backup over it for restarting as per above. The Ultrix mch.s file has code that does this (quite a lot) and I noticed a few cases that checked it the cputype is 34. Cheers, -- Ken Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA35763 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from igas2.postoffice.co.uk (firewall-user at igas2-2.igas.postoffice.co.uk [194.152.87.163]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA35759 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:11:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk) From: robin.birch@postoffice.co.uk Received: by igas2.postoffice.co.uk; id JAA11993; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:09:47 GMT Received: from unknown(10.5.4.17) by igas2.postoffice.co.uk via smap (V5.0) id xma011854; Thu, 1 Feb 01 09:09:36 GMT Received: with SMTP id JAA29940; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:09:35 GMT Received: by postoffice.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) id 002569E6.00324CD1 ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:09:24 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: POSTOFFICE To: "Steven M. Schultz" cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-ID: <002569E6.00324BF2.00 at postoffice.co.uk> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:59:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I have the begemot simulator running very effectively on Linux, although I have not used the emulated ethernet connection. If anyone knows how to set this up on linux then I would welcome some help. I must say that although p11 takes quite a bit of setting up it is well worth the trouble. Regards Robin Received: (from major at localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA38448 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:37:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA38444 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:36:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl at localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05794; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein Message-Id: <200102011735.JAA05794 at chiton.ucsd.edu> To: iking at microsoft.com Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From iking at microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > From: Ian King > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" , > Carl Lowenstein > > Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an emulator", I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 disk images. I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted RK0. All according to the instructions. I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a few hours last night. In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein at ucsd.edu