From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23070 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2023 16:48:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Jan 2023 16:48:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147B8423DD; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 02:48:37 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1674060517; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=mG8+saXOYYnugeZVvafJhij6taHoEVHi+uUXcZGXKgA=; b=1fmwySU0LCc1H1PHu5ENdmsrOUznB9CrZcZC5hlqMV3wELZp9BYjkEH02FLSvLDuDlE+hx /ZDwteCGJLYz5vih0q3MgwsO/6bqXadbycqWQHGayCONnyKT/sz8i3DtRknlvtZnv3vA7E rWrftGoHCBSdOVsh7GQuM5pSjjf982w= Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch (mail-40132.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.132]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7059C423BA for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 02:48:31 +1000 (AEST) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 16:48:23 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1674060508; x=1674319708; bh=mG8+saXOYYnugeZVvafJhij6taHoEVHi+uUXcZGXKgA=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=mWZyUZlHNlPbbyuTyenur/P4HAqhsUcCDBW7FDhvg/VtOosUx6xBAdC0tNY6Fq1g8 BvN3U2D5JrlgSPhzYGq2I3BIx73OPJirkBFoJ/1NWKgqcwmviDJxuvus9nFzHwcrpD YCL07u9QIH/d14OYhVnfkZlspeNUqvza9zdr/EMCJaSIy/XboC1u7ilosDo+V0dKNs mmKMZBpLbslZftdLHlMcBoc45UORDNV2QdRQ8bN2VqYd09sqz1inExQUX6+5HgYxxE NTyyGsrh2HKj4eTzomNEFVFQJeoUgh/MEcXMVnIjJA60MrsTdj+Cb0u/9++AMq1OAM ffYCVvzTRriFw== To: Larry McVoy Message-ID: <3BljvbKLLKuPP5jrdIpFuX6eaXAxDLyXUkPLDtzoAIAzBmLawp-guNKbvU1PP-nqY_qo95aqNB_19AINucW9l5xBXjWO3bWn5gS0gqyl69M=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <20230118161959.GE2964@mcvoy.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: WN5U3WD6S5OSH5LQGH5APECC3G7MKD2Y X-Message-ID-Hash: WN5U3WD6S5OSH5LQGH5APECC3G7MKD2Y X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco I've been waffling between Linux and FreeBSD as a main driver the past few = years. While I generally find Linux to be all around more responsive and c= ompatible with hardware, I find configuration and system maintenance much m= ore cut and dry on BSD's in general. /etc feels a bit less like a jumbled = mess and I can usually expect things to just "work" whereas Linux sometimes= there's some hefty finagling to figure out where distro author X decided t= o put feature or file Y despite 30 other distros and other UNIXes even putt= ing it in the same place. To be fair, BSDs only win out here due to number= s, of course more Linux distros =3D more entropy. This is largely the phenomenon that pushed me into building my systems up f= rom scratch moreso then not. Then the only people deciding how my system w= orks are myself and the package authors, not some middle layer of distro ma= nagers that all seem to have conflicting ideas of how a UNIX system should = work and present itself. If I can do all sorts of fancy desktop things but= can't even expect ed(1) and vi(1) to be around, how can it be called a UNI= X-like? - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 8:19 AM, Larry McVoy wro= te: > Pretty unrealistic to expect the users to suddenly have the time to do > kernel dev. Solaris opened sourced itself and it's dead. >=20 > It's a lot of work to maintain and evolve an OS. Windows, MacOS, and > Linux seem like the future. >=20 > As for BSD, they pretty much killed themselves by all the in-fighting and > the lack of someone like Linus. That was obvious 30 years ago and it > hasn't changed. That's why I switched from BSD to Linux. >=20 > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 04:10:34PM +0000, segaloco wrote: >=20 > > I just hope we'll see some attempts at opening up these code bases as t= ime goes on. Seeing as they're no longer going to be pushing new copies and= will eventually ramp down maintenance releases, opening up the source woul= d give their end users the ability to potentially float their own improveme= nts if they can't immediately migrate to Linux or BSD. That said, security = implications of course, don't want to just hand bad actors a code base to c= omb for memory unsafety in. > >=20 > > Also this article is BSD erasure :(, no mentions of the big three save = that OpenServer and Darwin have chunks of FreeBSD in them. I guess Berkeley= is just chopped liver... > >=20 > > - Matt G. > >=20 > > ------- Original Message ------- > > On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 7:14 AM, Larry McVoy lm@mcvoy.com w= rote: > >=20 > > > It makes perfect sense, it's a repeated story, commercial loses out > > > to free. > > >=20 > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 08:13:13AM -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > > >=20 > > > > Interestingly enough, Phil Hughes, who founded Linux Journal > > > > in the early 1990s, predicted that this would happen one day. > > > > This was in a private conversation we had. I thought he > > > > was crazy, but he was right. > > > >=20 > > > > arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > > > >=20 > > > > > https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/17/unix_is_dead/ > > > > >=20 > > > > > FYI. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Arnold > > >=20 > > > -- > > > --- > > > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat >=20 >=20 > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat