From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24083 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2022 18:52:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Aug 2022 18:52:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CD740D3D; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 04:52:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mta-202a.earthlink-vadesecure.net (mta-202a.earthlink-vadesecure.net [51.81.232.240]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 504AE40D25 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 04:52:12 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; bh=ij+0kmsB5YPAtt3UJ0dCnuLH8UvVydzaptYxg+ aBalA=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post: list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1660071131; x=1660675931; b=i9B6J7E8W2roBxSS90cb67Fjs0X1Ma6J4QbigRMg2sOGtxwD5NlF4P0 m3Q1ZNPRR9IwAcKCRAwvOZdGeiiO+RPc5iYvGpt3y2Zh3JvSOSOYlruI1a7FDo3LOYhrS6x s3BiMLgaxXH6g/VTDWWn4LMgf9U6xxzyyoKntsLmhXgeU0sR7UxiE3puybEMI35bGAv7SmW rmYMb4cFaDdyVflrXcL5zAaNagBk/AweeVzImauIhuVlrPoFU1rWyXPsqxfvMgseBKyA0Xp 5z07hfRoRqX9ZZSGIhyIqIOAOkaK1b5ek0MLh029MALPJhKQjUwSSJSsjPtEzz09F96CoVs TCw== Received: from [192.168.1.93] ([47.14.68.45]) by smtp.earthlink-vadesecure.net ESMTP vsel2nmtao02p with ngmta id 953f3929-1709c1e5f6f21a3b; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 18:52:11 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------xLLpUnGUHTqevIG8DFL7C390" Message-ID: <3aee23e2-8fd3-4586-2dd4-741eea495182@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 14:52:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.12.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <1oF87S-4zW-00@marmaro.de> <8NgHeeJiYEBE0zhtd9RdKIeYWcAwtxsnAj7YhVIvLpz-yt0__LeFvVzNNGgSNTeDGnVQy-qxkoHWvmRi84ybYyNAiMRDJuVoAaEG96UAu4s=@protonmail.com> <20220724190253.GA23421@tau1.ceti.pl> <20220728003014.GB6195@tau1.ceti.pl> <202207280103.26S13ZL5059300@ultimate.com> <1E44D7CE-CC4D-4F86-97CC-208E3972A785@msweng.com> <20220729050748.GB12246@tau1.ceti.pl> <1815F4B8-D6B4-4C71-AC05-27D88C1E580D@humeweb.com> From: Tom Teixeira To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-Reply-To: <1815F4B8-D6B4-4C71-AC05-27D88C1E580D@humeweb.com> Authentication-Results: earthlink-vadesecure.net; auth=pass smtp.auth=tjteixeira@earthlink.net smtp.mailfrom=tjteixeira@earthlink.net; Message-ID-Hash: XTDEZIHIAWLMAKCYOE7L6I7SLH7SBNXU X-Message-ID-Hash: XTDEZIHIAWLMAKCYOE7L6I7SLH7SBNXU X-MailFrom: tjteixeira@earthlink.net X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: SNOBOL and RATSNO List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------xLLpUnGUHTqevIG8DFL7C390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll confess: I was never very good at bench checking batch programs, but only had at most a handful of assignments in college: generally cycles were cheap on time-sharing systems and I quickly adapted to interactive debugging. Over time (with embedded systems in networking gear and other applications), that wasn't possible and the new skill I admired was being able to add effective logging to diagnose problems. And since most of those systems were some combination of real-time/multiprocessor/multithreaded, it was generally not possible to deterministically repeat the sequence. On 8/9/22 11:15 AM, Andrew Hume wrote: > rob, clem: > > has there been a shift in ability? or is this more likely a sampling bias > (because there were so many fewer programmers then)? > > >> On Aug 9, 2022, at 6:34 AM, Clem Cole wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 2:12 AM Rob Pike wrote: >> >> >> I still marvel at the productivity and precision of his >> generation of programmers. >> >> Amen. > --------------xLLpUnGUHTqevIG8DFL7C390 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'll confess: I was never very good at bench checking batch programs, but only had at most a handful of assignments in college: generally cycles were cheap on time-sharing systems and I quickly adapted to interactive debugging.

Over time (with embedded systems in networking gear and other applications), that wasn't possible and the new skill I admired was being able to add effective logging to diagnose problems. And since most of those systems were some combination of real-time/multiprocessor/multithreaded, it was generally not possible to deterministically repeat the sequence.

On 8/9/22 11:15 AM, Andrew Hume wrote:
rob, clem:

has there been a shift in ability? or is this more likely a sampling bias
(because there were so many fewer programmers then)?


On Aug 9, 2022, at 6:34 AM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:



On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 2:12 AM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

I still marvel at the productivity and precision of his generation of programmers.
Amen.


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