* Some PDP11 Q..
@ 1998-03-02 10:30 jorgen.pehrson
0 siblings, 0 replies; only message in thread
From: jorgen.pehrson @ 1998-03-02 10:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi,
I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
It says this when it starts up:
Testing in progress - Please wait
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
starting system
.
__: ADA1: Load resident files
A.DU0: BOOT from @ 526 fp ch Memory size 2048kBytes v06.12.413
VISONIK
Building supervisory and managment system
Landis & Gyr, Building Control
__: INI0: Start of RSYS !
__:SU03: Update Common from SYSL !
__: SIX2: Dataset IM: Rebuild Index
__: SIX2: Dataset REA: Rebuild Index
__: SIX2: Dataset DM: Rebuild Index
__: MELD: Init STA-Pointer 43252
__: MELD: Init ZMS-Pointer 10774
It has controlled the ventilation system on a hospital of that can be of
any help.
Anyone knows what OS this could be?
And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
look
at the cables it seems to be SCSI. And the controller for the streamer is
not manufactured
by DEC. (There's no DEC logo on it at least.)
It says B 01079 ISS.4 1984 CTS-11 CKK 3890 on the board. Is this a SCSI
controller board?
Can I connect SCSI disks to it or is it a streamer only interface?
There're some (bad quality) pictures of the board at
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum/pics/pdp11-board1.jpg
There's a switch on the front of the CPU box that says "AUX ON | OFF". And
on the back of
the PSU there's a switch that says "remote | off | local". What function do
they have?
Thanks!
--
Jorgen Pehrson
jp at spektr.ludvika.se
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803021648.AA23582 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Some PDP11 Q..
To: jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.ABB.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:48:04 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <412565BB.0036DA5F.00 at notestest.mail.abb.com> from "jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.abb.com" at Mar 2, 98 11:30:40 am
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> I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
> __: ADA1: Load resident files
> A.DU0: BOOT from @ 526 fp ch Memory size 2048kBytes v06.12.413
> __: INI0: Start of RSYS !
> __:SU03: Update Common from SYSL !
It looks like a version of RSTS/E to me (but that's mainly because I
know it isn't RT-11 or RSX-11...)
> And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
> look
> at the cables it seems to be SCSI. And the controller for the streamer is
> not manufactured
> by DEC. (There's no DEC logo on it at least.)
> It says B 01079 ISS.4 1984 CTS-11 CKK 3890 on the board. Is this a SCSI
> controller board?
It's almost certainly a QIC-02 controller, probably doing TS11 emulation.
The sure way to test if its doing TS11 emulation or not is to drop into
console ODT and see if there's something living at the TS11 CSRs at
17772520.
> There's a switch on the front of the CPU box that says "AUX ON | OFF". And
> on the back of
> the PSU there's a switch that says "remote | off | local". What function do
> they have?
These control the 3-wire DEC power controller bus.
Warren may want to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't non-Unix issues
like these best taken to forums such as vmsnet.pdp-11 and comp.os.rsts ?
Tim. (shoppa at triumf.ca)
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803022328.KAA08076 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: dionj at sco.COM (Dion Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:28:19 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <19980302152605.46176 at sco.com> from Dion Johnson at "Mar 2, 98 03:26:05 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Dion Johnson:
> I am going to give myself the go-ahead and not bother those busy
> legal folks any more.
Goodo.
> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
> Are VISA and AMEX enough cards to support? I should know pretty soon on this.
I suspect that would be fine.
> > Someone asked if a password-protected ftp site would be ok?
> > I thought that it might contravene the license. What's your opinion?
>
> As long as you know WHO has the password, that would be in accordance
> with the license, as I read it.
> -Dion
That's excellent news, Dion. I'll cc this to the PUPS mailing list.
Thanks again,
Warren
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:30 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Dion Johnson <dionj at sco.COM>
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
References: <19980302152605.46176 at sco.com> <199803022328.KAA08076 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Tue, 3 March 1998 at 10:28:19 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Dion Johnson:
>> I am going to give myself the go-ahead and not bother those busy
>> legal folks any more.
>
> Goodo.
Great news!
>> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
>> Are VISA and AMEX enough cards to support? I should know pretty soon on this.
>
> I suspect that would be fine.
I would think that you should add MasterCard to that list, possibly
instead of Amexco.
Where do we go from here? Can we start to bombard you with
license applications?
Greg
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803030213.NAA08617 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:13:33 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980303122430.47237 at freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 3, 98 12:24:30 pm"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> >> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
>
> I would think that you should add MasterCard to that list, possibly
> instead of Amexco.
>
> Where do we go from here? Can we start to bombard [Dion] with
> license applications?
> Greg
Dion sent me this suggestion:
So I guess what we have is this:
1. Prospective licensee gets the license from [PUPS] website.
2. He signs and sends to SCO and sends his $100 to SF PO box.
3. Someone here [at SCO] lets [PUPS] know that he is a licensee.
4. [PUPS] can send him the source code (and charge a fee for that
as you see fit).
SCO wants the license on paper. I asked him for the final license in a
form suitable for printing, e.g PostScript, PDF, Word format (gasp!).
Greg's suggestion about MasterCard went to Dion as well. I guess we just
have to sit back & wait until we get the word (and the final license)
from Dion.
As soon as I have all the details, there will be a description of the
steps you need to perform in order to get a license placed on the PUPS
home page.
Cheers all,
Warren
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From: Neil Johnson <neil@skatter.usask.ca>
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To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
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Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
it might be good to know.
Neil
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803031708.AA24509 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: neil at skatter.usask.ca (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt at CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
In-Reply-To: <199803031632.KAA00644 at hydrus.USask.Ca> from "Neil Johnson" at Mar 3, 98 10:32:06 am
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> Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> it might be good to know.
As most all of the "new stuff" lately seems to be 2.11BSD-related,
this brings up a (probably silly) question of mine: what's the
relationship between the SCO license agreement and 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11BSD?
Will the SCO license be functionally equivalent to a WE/AT&T source
license (other than the per-machine limitations)? In other words,
are the 2BSD distributions "SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS" in the language
of the agreement?
Another stupid question: few of us (perhaps I'm the only one) have
CD-ROM readers/writers attached to PDP-11's. Will those who have to
transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
have to license the intermediary machines with SCO? In other words,
will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
CPU"s?
Tim.
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032110.IAA15973 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:42 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9803031708.AA24509 at alph02.triumf.ca> from Tim Shoppa at "Mar 3, 98 09:08:37 am"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Tim Shoppa:
> > Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> > way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> > stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> > it might be good to know.
>
> As most all of the "new stuff" lately seems to be 2.11BSD-related,
> this brings up a (probably silly) question of mine: what's the
> relationship between the SCO license agreement and 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11BSD?
> Will the SCO license be functionally equivalent to a WE/AT&T source
> license (other than the per-machine limitations)? In other words,
> are the 2BSD distributions "SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS" in the language
> of the agreement?
2BSDs are definitely SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS as they are derived from
the listed products (6th, 7th Edition and 32V) and are 16-bit operating
systems.
> Another stupid question: few of us (perhaps I'm the only one) have
> CD-ROM readers/writers attached to PDP-11's. Will those who have to
> transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
> have to license the intermediary machines with SCO? In other words,
> will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
> CPU"s?
My interpretation is this:
DESIGNATED CPU means all CPUs licensed as such for a specific
SOURCE CODE PRODUCT.
SCO grants to LICENSEE a personal, nontransferable and
nonexclusive right to use, in the AUTHORIZED COUNTRY, each SOURCE
CODE PRODUCT identified in Section 3 of this Agreement, solely
for personal use [..] and solely on or in conjunction with
DESIGNATED CPUs [...]. Such right to use includes the right to
modify such SOURCE CODE PRODUCT and to prepare DERIVED BINARY PRODUCT
based on such SOURCE CODE PRODUCT,
In my opinion, you can't USE the source code unless you have a CPU which
run the machine code which is produced by the source code. I can't prepare
a DERIVED BINARY PRODUCT if I don't have a PDP-11 or an emulator of such.
I'd better check with Dion.
Warren
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032116.IAA16053 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:16:37 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803031632.KAA00644 at hydrus.USask.Ca> from Neil Johnson at "Mar 3, 98 10:32:06 am"
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Neil Johnson:
> Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> it might be good to know.
This is a good idea, but I'd be happy for a licencee to opt out from the
list if they so desired.
Warren
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032149.IAA17305 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PUPS Volunteers list
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:49:10 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
If you had volunteered but didn't receive any email about it today, please
mail me back as I've missed you somehow.
Still waiting on Dion re the final license document and the questions
regarding Mastercard and `intermediate' CPUs.
Cheers all,
Warren
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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Subject: From Dion: intermediate CPUs
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:21:10 +1100 (EST)
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----- Forwarded message from Dion Johnson -----
> > Will those who have to
> > transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
> > have to license the intermediary machines with SCO? In other words,
> > will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
> > CPU"s?
>
> I hope not!
> Warren
Right, that makes no sense at all. I suspect we (you and I) will
want to whip up a sort of cover letter for the license that
explains how to fill out the form and, as experience accumulates,
a FAQ, etc.
-Dion
----- End of forwarded message from Dion Johnson -----
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From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
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Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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< I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
<volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
<software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
Query:
The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
Allison
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032236.JAA17613 at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Binary-only PDP UNIX
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:47 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803032232.AA27033 at world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 3, 98 05:32:54 pm"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> < I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
> <volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
> <software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
>
> The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
You can pick up binaries for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX for free,
as they are already covered by a SCO license. See
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/Licenses/v7_bin_license.txt
If you also look at the PUPS Home Page
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS
you can pick up RK05 disk images for all three edition, as part of
Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator.
Warren
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803040054.AA29624 at alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Some PDP11 Q..
To: jorgen.pehrson at seinf.MAIL.ABB.com
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:54:01 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <412565BB.0036DA5F.00 at notestest.mail.abb.com> from "jorgen.pehrson at seinf.mail.abb.com" at Mar 2, 98 11:30:40 am
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> I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
> ...
> And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
> ...
> There're some (bad quality) pictures of the board at
> http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum/pics/pdp11-board1.jpg
I finally got a chance to look at the picture; the board looks to me like
an MTI MSV22, which is a Q-bus board. There's no way that it's a Unibus
board. Are you sure you've got an 11/84 there, and not a 11/83?
Tim.
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:17:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803040117.RAA13880 at moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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> From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
> Query:
>
> The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
a binary only system might work. I can't see myself volunteering
to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.
The older, 'static' or frozen (for now), distributions can be run
binary only - but the traditional method of updating systems was
to either distribute diffs or replacement source modules.
One main reason for this, especially in the kernel (but also some
applications level stuff), is that the address space of a PDP-11 does
not allow the luxury of including all ways of doing something. For
example: the C library has to be build for either 'hosts' file or
resolver routines - can't do both. So someone's running a binary
only release but with a hosts file orientation. THey want updated
binaries but all my systems are resolver based - building new binaries
would be painful and time consuming. What happens when a system
include file changes and all (or many) of the binaries in the system
are affected - who's going to volunteer to recompile the system and
make a new CD for the folks who don't want to maintain current sources?
In the kernel arena it's even worse - who ever builds a kernel would
have to request a 'config' file (do you want 'quotas' or not, do you
want 'networking' and if so which ethernet card, do you want 1 or 2
MSCP controllers, and so on. Ick.) and custom build a kernel (can't
include _all_ possible devices, etc because it just won't fit). I
don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the
providing custom kernels and binaries.
From V5 on (I can't speak for earlier) you were expected to have a
source license (which thanks to SCO's help we now will have) and
install/maintain the system from those. Binary only setups were
extremely uncommon (except in shops with lots of machines and they'd
have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from
that).
Configurability is very limited without sources and I'd have thought
that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
only releases.
As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
images already available without requiring a source license at all.
There's no need to pay the minimal $100 for the upcoming license if
all that's desired is a binary only system that's preconfigured for
a limited set of devices. (re)configuration takes sources.
So I guess the question is who's volunteering to build and distribute
the binary only kits? Not me ;-)
Steven Schultz
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:07:06 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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On Tue, 3 March 1998 at 17:17:18 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
>> Query:
>>
>> The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
>> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
>
> If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
> a binary only system might work. I can't see myself volunteering
> to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.
>
> (omitting detailled explanation)
>
> I
> don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the
> providing custom kernels and binaries.
All good reasons. I suppose I could give access to an emulator over
the net if anybody wants to do it themselves. This is not the way to
go if you have your own machine with enough storage, but it might be
if you're low on storage.
> As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
> images already available without requiring a source license at
> all.
JOOI, where are these?
Greg
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:53 -0500
From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803041324.AA26659 at world.std.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Binary-only PDP UNIX
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<The v7 comes on either rk05 or rl02 images.
<Earlier editions didn't know about rl02s.
Exactly my understanding and V7 doesn't run on pdp-11/23s though it is
runable on 11/73.
My interest if to have one of the many PDP-11 Qbus machines I have
running a nonDEC OS such as unix. The 11/23s would be a favored target
as I have a few of them but, devices compatable with binary versions
are not available to me.
I'll look at the archive for the RL02 images. IF there is anyone that can
suggest a way to get the images on to the RL02 using RT-11 I'm interested.
I can kermit the files from the PC so that step is not a problem.
<> Save for the rk05 image does not match my hardware (no rk05). Also sin
<> they are disk images the target disk would have to have the same bad bl
<> map or all havoc happens.
<
<Yup. These images were designed for emulators.
Understood, not much interest to me. Running a PDP-11 sim with two of
them behind me doesn't really do it for me. Running unix on a sim under
dos on a PC exceeds my grasp of reality. I'm the sort if I wanted unix
on the PC I'd install *BSD for 386/486 and skip the simulation. I think
Bob S. and friends did some great work though.
Allison
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:24:45 -0500
From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199803041324.AA26543 at world.std.com>
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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< have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from
< that).
For me that would be perfectly useless as the only PDP-11 compuler is the
DECUS-C and ti's far to minimal to crunch that. Chicken and egg. Right
now I need the chicken on my 11/73 before I can consider the sources
and then I have to configure enough storage to hold them.
< that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
< only releases.
I sorta am but for me $100 might as well be $10,000.
<
< As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
< images already available without requiring a source license at
Their problem is from what I can tell is they are not runable on my
11/73 with the hardware I have. There is that little problem of
transfering them (via RT-11?).
My config, call it a sanity test to see if there is an existant binary I
can run:
11/73 1mb non-pmi ram
DLV11j
RQDX3 rx33, rx52(x2) (rx53 available)
RX02
RLV12 and one RL02
TK50
I can swap a DHV-11 for the DLV11j.
I can put in 1 more meg of non-pmi ram.
The TK50 is shared with a VAX.
RT-11 V5 running.
There are no RKxxs available.
I expect I'll never be able to network the 11s I have, nor will I have
adaquate resources (Disk) to compile the kernel. I will not discuss the
11/23 or the pro350 sitting next to them as it's been implied they could
only run the oldest versions due to lack of I&D space.
Allison
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1998-03-02 10:30 Some PDP11 Q jorgen.pehrson
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