From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id db75c8d7 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 08:30:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8D428A18AC; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 18:30:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A5FA181A; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 18:30:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6A7D3A181A; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 18:30:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail1.g22.pair.com (mail1.g22.pair.com [66.39.65.155]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C95289EDF1 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 18:30:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail1.g22.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.g22.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4E7484190; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 04:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.16.0.147] (unknown [88.98.95.237]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail1.g22.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B24744966B; Wed, 27 Jun 2018 04:30:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Bradshaw Message-Id: <43A3E865-2557-47C6-8359-DEAFDF8571E6@tfeb.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AAA3A39B-8DE6-441B-AC63-CF5E50A288BC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 09:30:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <117BE24B-C768-43ED-A470-40FCD1662ECD@bitblocks.com> To: Bakul Shah References: <1f8043fd-e8d6-a5e6-5849-022d1a41f5bf@kilonet.net> <20180626215012.GE8150@mcvoy.com> <20180626215905.GH8150@mcvoy.com> <117BE24B-C768-43ED-A470-40FCD1662ECD@bitblocks.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Subject: Re: [TUHS] PDP-11 legacy, C, and modern architectures X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_AAA3A39B-8DE6-441B-AC63-CF5E50A288BC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 26 Jun 2018, at 23:20, Bakul Shah wrote: >=20 > With new attacks like TLBleed etc. it is becoming increasingly clear = that > caching (hidden memory to continue with the illusion of a simple = memory > model) itself is a potential security issue. I didn't think anything = the > author said was particularly controversial any more. A lot of = processor > evolution seems to have been to accommodate C's simple memory model. That's the strangest thing to see: *why do people think the point he's = making is in any way controversial*, because it's so obvious. (But then I'm also annoyed by the paper because I've been talking about = 'giant PDP-11s' for a long time and now he's stolen (obviously not = stolen: independently come up with) my term, pretty much.)= --Apple-Mail=_AAA3A39B-8DE6-441B-AC63-CF5E50A288BC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On 26 Jun 2018, at 23:20, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com>= wrote:

With new attacks = like TLBleed etc. it is becoming increasingly clear that
caching (hidden memory to continue with the = illusion of a simple memory
model) itself is a = potential security issue. I didn't think anything the
author said was particularly controversial any = more. A lot of processor
evolution seems to = have been to accommodate C's simple memory = model.

That's the strangest thing to see: *why do people think the = point he's making is in any way controversial*, because it's so = obvious.

(But = then I'm also annoyed by the paper because I've been talking about = 'giant PDP-11s' for a long time and now he's stolen (obviously not = stolen: independently come up with) my term, pretty = much.)
= --Apple-Mail=_AAA3A39B-8DE6-441B-AC63-CF5E50A288BC--