From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25854 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2022 04:32:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Aug 2022 04:32:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55CA34011D; Wed, 3 Aug 2022 14:32:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pasta.tip.net.au (pasta.tip.net.au [203.10.76.2]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74BC440106 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2022 14:32:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [203.7.122.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.tip.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4LyJqK0schz9QLH; Wed, 3 Aug 2022 14:32:12 +1000 (AEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: steve jenkin In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2022 14:32:10 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <496D2B07-8C23-4D2F-ABA7-132E8E2106C6@canb.auug.org.au> References: <20220731195702.ACC4218C0C1@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> To: Gavin Tersteeg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Message-ID-Hash: YZZD4WHZQP55ZBUDX4SCQNFVYQ2HVBXP X-Message-ID-Hash: YZZD4WHZQP55ZBUDX4SCQNFVYQ2HVBXP X-MailFrom: sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: LSX issues and musing List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: > On 3 Aug 2022, at 03:56, Gavin Tersteeg wrote: >=20 > My target system (A Heathkit H11) does have the full 56K of memory, I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of the Heathkit H11 in 1980.=20 Did work with someone circa 1984 that owned a DEC device, a VT71 or = VT72, that had an LSI-11 + Q-Bus inside. The H11 wasn=E2=80=99t that differently priced to the IBM PC 3 years = later, at least for an entry system. Any ideas on why businesses didn=E2=80=99t pick up the H11 in 1980? [priced too high for hobbyists] Possibly: Marketing, =E2=80=99support=E2=80=99, form-factor/physical = size, peripherals - no display / keyboard on H11, serial terminal - or = =E2=80=99software=E2=80=99 availability? Price didn=E2=80=99t win the market. IBM=E2=80=99s 5150 was never = =E2=80=9Ccheapest=E2=80=9D or technically =E2=80=9Cbest=E2=80=9D at any = time - hence rapid rise of (variable quality) clones, built down to a = price. Gates, Allen & Ballmer understood business users wanted =E2=80=9COff the = Shelf Software" from Independent Software Vendors (ISV=E2=80=99s). For ISV's to target/support MS-DOS 1.0, Microsoft provided a mechanical = translation tool to convert from CP/M executable to MS-DOS. Wikipedia says: 1978: H11 US$1295 (kit) or US$1595 fully assembled ("4kword base = system=E2=80=9D)=20 display advert = $1295 kit + = postage/freight, bare system, 8KB (4kword), 6 Q-bus slots free. ROM ? 1981: IBM 5150(PC) US$1,565 for "16 KB RAM, Color Graphics = Adapter, and no disk drives.=E2=80=9D ( I only saw 5150=E2=80=99s with 2x 5.25=E2=80=9D = 360KB floppies included - otherwise, can=E2=80=99t run programs & store = files) ( we had someone buy an almost clone with 2x = 8=E2=80=9D floppies, @ 1.2MB each to run a database they had, 320/360K = didn=E2=80=99t cut it ) -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design=20 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin