From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18050 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2022 09:32:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Dec 2022 09:32:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B20423C9; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:32:10 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1671528730; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=p2UAxB8NjGzvwFhZ7ieb3Ocp3tMZlyLhynYzitC/NM8=; b=IcF+13i6e6dpz8eCPMSZw3b5evjB4g4IdNEtt64JQQQSl0dRHOhCKHVPW76UL8g8t8LjFA /uJ0Ahc0Fi42ET/9r0dpgE+/w3foXcoJeF6dQz7k82CmYPXD/oOGNAYRJ2z/pvWUZYrTEf QKyY/wfN3xO/G1WaVt+PlDONpQfi5SU= Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch (mail-4325.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.25]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2F53423C3 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:32:04 +1000 (AEST) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2022 09:31:57 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1671528722; x=1671787922; bh=p2UAxB8NjGzvwFhZ7ieb3Ocp3tMZlyLhynYzitC/NM8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=GbPgGzXpPpWBLTeydqOlwk1SdTo2ZilfYR/X1dgsYd9bsyzMUuNshOnxp6s/3WnOp DZI5/Q63COCOD7QtAfAMzzRyXU49l3ow7GD4w7oYnmzcFLX+yP9yyujki//EvovQzM c6ETfuKH+3mAA98HIJig+yRkDnwynWIxaKGP8gfsZl/pLqhvMqtG12Y7oKwf+QkEpn 375u2+6OIPaN2ctw2GayBj1HDpGGxFwtYiCG4jkoctH+33FSLHlf3PGyTyifsWZiup GPxIfuCpqMDzH9BCxm/4U4RjVITHNsUpWdAibJ0tVRufjSIsn08r/PDNa8JtVsfVb2 TGg3RgkXw9eXQ== To: arnold@skeeve.com Message-ID: <4eZtTVIQfet1mQn895IP8V1ZHaPd_E6PAseycGIryzxcUSh-2vdyfPcB2a-KB3zyAUBYT1SPXXt200n2dBB7tt3ghyto1ZcWhQOLlqx01Mc=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <202212200856.2BK8uA1d004518@freefriends.org> References: <202212191738.2BJHcLBF024793@ultimate.com> <202212200856.2BK8uA1d004518@freefriends.org> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: 2MCWYUMWFHVHQB774VCZ5MNJJ6OA7RA5 X-Message-ID-Hash: 2MCWYUMWFHVHQB774VCZ5MNJJ6OA7RA5 X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco Looooots of if(n)defs in userland on "u370" in PDP-11 System V code, zilch = on 3.0.1. Yep, must've been 4.0, because that's in the first document, A.1.1: https:/= /www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/Volume_1/A.1.1_Overvie= w_and_Synopsis_of_Facilities.pdf "Currently, UNIX runs on the Western Electric Co. 3B-20; Digital Equipment = Corporation's (DEC) PDP-11/23, /34, /45, /70, VAX-11/780, and VAX-11/750; a= nd IBM System/370 and equivalent." But wait, there's more! https://archive.org/details/unix-system-release-description-system-v This is the Release Description released with System V. It contains a coup= le of introductory documents explaining the new features and general enviro= nmental adjustments involved, as well as a number of appendices that make u= p the bulk of the document. Of particular note in this case is Appendix I,= the document I mentioned earlier containing a list of modification request= s resolved between System III and System V. Then there's the Documentation Guide: https://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/000-111= _ATT_Documentation_Guide_Nov87.pdf This is where mention is made of many different architectures. There are d= ocuments for 3B20(A|S), 3B5, 3B15, 3B2, WE32100, VME/WE321SB, DEC (PDP/VAX)= , NS32000, M68000, iAPX 286, and Z8000. This document also mentions docs f= or UNIX Real-Time-Reliable on the 3B20D. No doubt a MERT and UNIX/RT desce= ndant. 3B5 section mentions a "Release 5.3" so before the System V moniker= . Farthest I've seen the minor version. I've skimmed over this listing a couple of times looking for other informat= ion but a few things stood out this time. The WE321SB seems to be a single= board computer running a version called System V/VME. I wonder if any of = those still exist, a single board running SVR2 out of the box! No mention = of System/370 though, but of course this is just a listing of available doc= umentation at the time, it doesn't reflect what is actually out there. Of = the listed architectures, I don't think I've seen anything floating around = for VME/WE321SB, Z8000, or iAPX 286, but I can't say I've looked very hard. Needless to say the system really grew legs in the 80s even inside the Bell= . - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, December 20th, 2022 at 12:56 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Phil Budne phil@ultimate.com wrote: >=20 > > Is there any other surviving documentation about the system? > > Any recall of what branch of AT&T UNIX it was based on? >=20 >=20 > IIRC, in the USG 4.0 doc that I sent to Matt, it says something like > "UNIX is an operating system for the DEC PDP-11, the DEC VAX 11/780, > and the IBM System 370". Matt --- can you confirm? I can't get to my > copy so easily. >=20 > That document dates from 1981, and as it came from USG, it would mean > that the AT&T UNIX on 370 was from that world and is what is described > in the 1984 BSTJ. >=20 > If anyone has the System III source handy, one could check if there > is a u370 shell script and/or a u370 directory in the kernel source. > (There used to be shell scripts named pdp11, vax, u3b, and u370 for use > in shell 'if' statements, analogous to the C preprocessor defines.) > If so, then UNIX 370 would date back even further. >=20 > HTH, >=20 > Arnold