From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5402 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2023 17:23:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Feb 2023 17:23:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9B843279; Tue, 28 Feb 2023 03:23:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (unknown [195.121.94.184]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A80D343268 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2023 03:23:11 +1000 (AEST) X-KPN-MessageId: 6fb390fc-b6c3-11ed-91cc-005056994fde Received: from smtp.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.155.5]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id 6fb390fc-b6c3-11ed-91cc-005056994fde; Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:23:22 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=planet.nl; s=planet01; h=message-id:to:date:subject:mime-version:content-type:from; bh=K8FOvsgbRa5Zyq2WXwMv0uoN5nwcRYBSOYD193idpiw=; b=IoNmYNAtr2g8u72BrvKG98obNoYFXPWFX2/j5Ocddb8IAwSLeB0X0Y/sqp30Mk0B6TUTaIQnMGXlb kCqUDSVLwGgSckWWf9XnAJ5h7UdgpUwLw/ovdxQnHEV7J6okATa8Cs41vlrTw/Ks6bq8iXg8eLXo4e XpkFC2vMjIimDbvc= X-KPN-MID: 33|U71mSIxrr0tIBIRIev7fpllcdxo3Fu1P+bgNfbyQhdNywpUX0io1goplgMnLWQK cLUtBAqoZ3G2QDuhVzppyBzjrjTXBnl3tStDaso6dRPM= X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes X-CMASSUN: 33|xHg1lK9+DFB9CMCuAIDdwCjfc3U5FodCPpM3gd6v+ui4iB80tpFdKcqPqsqXo7z 7M9tLLTz9RcgWzn8zpdIvZg== X-Originating-IP: 46.253.188.28 Received: from smtpclient.apple (46-253-188-28.dynamic.monzoon.net [46.253.188.28]) by smtp.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 61e73f01-b6c3-11ed-9e25-00505699b758; Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:22:59 +0100 (CET) From: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:22:59 +0100 References: <58626A0B-EF9C-4920-8E20-CE0C4210BA6A@planet.nl> To: "tuhs@tuhs.org" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <525A3F51-DAAA-4D90-9817-B3EB30CB4D6E@planet.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Message-ID-Hash: C5VEWGCPRKAOLVIHREHOETIIDVYGT3MJ X-Message-ID-Hash: C5VEWGCPRKAOLVIHREHOETIIDVYGT3MJ X-MailFrom: pnr@planet.nl X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Early GUI on Linux List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: > On 26 Feb 2023, at 03:21, Jonathan Gray wrote: >=20 > On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 10:31:22PM +0100, Paul Ruizendaal wrote: >>=20 >> I vaguely recall an OS from the late 90=E2=80=99s that mixed Linux = with a partly in-kernel GUI called =E2=80=9CBerlin=E2=80=9D or something = like that, but I cannot find any trace of that today, so maybe I = misremember. >=20 > The Berlin project started incorporating code from the earlier Fresco > project, and then renamed to Fresco. Thank you for those links, that refreshed my memory. Yes, this was the = project that I had lingering my mind. At the time I had the impression = it was dependent on the GGI (General Graphics Interface) project and its = kernel part (KGI, Kernel Graphics Interface). It would seem to me that there was a fair amount of complaining about X = in the 1998-2004 time frame, beyond the complexity of getting it = configured. The key complaints seem to have been: - The XShm is a poor fix for fast local operations (it opened the door = for X as a compositor though) - There is no standard widget set (too many credible runners: Gtk, Qt, = Tk, FLTK, etc.) - The server should handle basic widget interaction, not the client. - There is no alpha blending The proposed fixes include Berlin/GGI/KGI, DirectFB and Y-windows = (http://www.y-windows.org); probably there are others. None of these = seem to have had much traction (with the possible exception of = DirectFB). Am I missing major initiatives in this space?