From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 782f1c9e for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 19:54:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 371159C1FF; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:54:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939E09C14A; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:54:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 64CF59C14A; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:54:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net [194.109.24.25]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 733CD9C102 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:54:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mba2.fritz.box ([80.101.112.122]) by smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id uM4yiHCyYpLtbuM4ziMuzE; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 20:54:22 +0100 From: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <54907FF0-3700-43FC-AA46-95F43F54AEB2@planet.nl> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 20:54:20 +0100 To: TUHS main list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfPDTvbsAlJkaMIrJQQ32yD0CsCtQj1tF6jwwwzHGmrTVQK0PFOlL0nZ5r9cFrCkCBiFB2Udi2CUbluwxBUBA1FowSKjfEzXhF7GEcDS0wBWusNC3w6c+ 3wk8lFJN7lTf69a19lYY1Pun4lLyaB2/IC/Idq3HuRJV3+TfiOS0uzxtWdZGhhCVUL42J7e0Y91KZQ== Subject: [TUHS] Spider [was: Unix quix] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I can answer some of the below, as I was looking into that a few years = ago. > 81. Q: What was the first Unix network? > A: spider > You thought it was Datakit, didn't you? But Sandy Fraser had an = earlier > project. >=20 > When did Alexander G Fraser's spider cell network happen? For that = matter, > when did Datakit happen? I can't find references to either start date = on > line (nor anything on spider except for references to it in Dr = Fraser's > bio). I can find references to Datakit in 1978 or so. Spider was designed between 1969 and 1974 - the final lab report (#23) = dates from December 1974. It was based around a serial loop running at = T1 signalling speed (~1.5Mhz). Here is a video recorded by Dr. Fraser = about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DojRtJ1U6Qzw (first half is = about Spider, second half about Datakit). It connected to its hosts via a (discrete TTL-based) microcontroller or = =E2=80=9CTIU=E2=80=9D and seems to have been connected almost = immediately to Unix systems: the oldest driver I have been able to = locate is in the V4 tree = (https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=3DV4/nsys/dmr/tdir/tiu.c). = It used a DMA-based parallel interface into the PDP11. As such, it seems = to have been much faster than the typical Datakit connection later - but = I know too little about Datakit to be sure. There is an interesting visit report from 1975 that discusses some of = the stuff that was done with Spider here: = https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:rq704hx4375/rq704hx4375.pdf Beyond those experiments I think Spider usage was limited to file = serving (=E2=80=99nfs=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98ufs=E2=80=99) and printing = (=E2=80=99npr=E2=80=99). It would seem logical that it was used for = remote login, but I have not found any traces of such usage. Same for = email usage. =46rom what little I know, I think that Datakit became operational in a = test network in 1979 and as a product in 1982. > I thought the answer was "ARPANET" since we had a NCP on 4th edition = Unix > in late 1974 or early 1975 from the University of Illinois dating from = that > time (the code in TUHS appears to be based on V6 + a number of = patches). =E2=80=9CNetwork Unix=E2=80=9D = (https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc681.html) was written by Steve = Holmgren, Gary Grossman and Steve Bunch in the last 3 months of 1974. To = my best knowledge they used V5 and migrated to V6 as it came along. I = think they were getting regular update tapes, and they implemented their = system as a device driver (plus userland support) to be able to keep up = with the steady flow of updates. Greg Chesson was also involved with = this Arpanet Unix. As far as I can tell, Arpanet Unix saw fairly wide deployment within the = Arpanet research community, also as a front end processor for other = systems. A few years back I asked on this list why =E2=80=9CNetwork Unix=E2=80=9D = was not more enthusiastically received by the core Unix development team = and (conceptually) integrated into the main code base. I understood the = replies as that (i) people were very satisfied with Spider; and (ii) = being part of Bell they wanted a networking system that was more = compatible with the Bell network, i.e. Datakit. =3D=3D In my opinion both =E2=80=9CSpider Unix=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CArpanet = Unix=E2=80=9D threw a very long conceptual shadow. =46rom Spider = onwards, the Research systems viewed the network as a device (Spider), = that could be multiplexed (V8 streams) or even mounted (Plan9). The Arpa = lineage saw the network as a long distance bidirectional pipe, with the = actual I/O device hidden from view; this view persists all the way to = 4.2BSD and beyond. I often wonder if it was (is?) possible to come up with a design with = the conceptual clarity of Plan9, but organised around the =E2=80=9Cnetwork= as a pipe=E2=80=9D view instead.