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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h187sm2218048oif.48.2021.08.02.20.27.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: <202108030149.1731nIsp395841@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 20:27:23 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <55D95A34-3644-4A95-B94F-76EC1A37D729@iitbombay.org> References: <202108030149.1731nIsp395841@darkstar.fourwinds.com> To: Jon Steinhart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Systematic approach to command-line interfaces X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Aug 2, 2021, at 6:49 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: >=20 > Bakul Shah writes: >> Or perhaps the issue is not having graphics/GUI designers with the >> creativity and sensibilities of the early Bell Labs crowd of = researchers? >> I keep thinking there ought to be something simpler/more elegant than >> the current graphics subsystems.... >>=20 >>> On Aug 2, 2021, at 11:16 AM, Adam Thornton = wrote: >>>=20 >>> It's a measure of Unix having been wounded by its own success. >>>=20 >>> fork() is a great model for a single-threaded text processing = pipeline to >> do automated typesetting. (More generally, anything that is a = straightforward >> composition of filter/transform stages.) Which is, y'know, what Unix = is *for*. >>>=20 >>> It's not so great for a responsive GUI in front of a multi-function = interactive program. >>>=20 >>> These days, the vast majority of Unix applications are "stuff people = play with on their phones." >>>=20 >>> Adam >=20 > I thought that I posted something about this recently when someone > was arguing for threads being unnecessary and bad. >=20 > My two cents is that GUIs were the big driver for threads. I would > personally like to get rid of them as they're "the same but different" > with regards to processes. My preference would be to solve the > heaviness of processes problem. I'm not in the thick of that these > days, but I don't see it being solved in software alone; it's going > to take some serious hardware/software architecture work. Might be > easier to accomplish now that the world has pretty much settled on > the process model. >=20 > Jon AFAIK pretty much all GUI frameworks are (or were) single threaded. At least I don't see the GUI as the main motivation for threads. I was mainly complaining about the complexity of graphics subsystem, including user interaction. Don't see what fork() has to do with it.=