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* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
@ 2022-08-12 11:01 Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
  2022-08-12 11:15 ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS @ 2022-08-12 11:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs; +Cc: segaloco

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> And I've received the documents!  This is a pastebin with the rough contents of the documentation package.
> 
> https://pastebin.com/jAqqBXA4 <https://pastebin.com/jAqqBXA4>
> 
> Now for some analysis:

I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to optimize these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not appear in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that it was not included there either.

This would make Unix 5.0 / SysV R1 the first release with what is now known as SysV IPC. The PDP11 version of R1 has the CBUnix version of shared memory, as the VAX version did not make sense in the limited address space of the PDP11.

From the pastebin summary, it would seem that IPC is not in this documentation either? That would be surprising, and reopens the possibility that IPC was part of Unix 4.0

Paul


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* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12 11:01 [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
@ 2022-08-12 11:15 ` arnold
  2022-08-12 11:41   ` Jonathan Gray
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-08-12 11:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs, pnr; +Cc: segaloco

Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established
> that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to optimize
> these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not appear
> in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that
> it was not included there either.

I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.

Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.

I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12 11:15 ` arnold
@ 2022-08-12 11:41   ` Jonathan Gray
  2022-08-12 16:06     ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Gray @ 2022-08-12 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: arnold; +Cc: tuhs, pnr, segaloco

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> 
> > I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established
> > that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to optimize
> > these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not appear
> > in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that
> > it was not included there either.
> 
> I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
> did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
> 3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
> 
> Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
> 
> I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
> very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)

"Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced
new IPC mechanisms"

from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pirzada-1988-PhD-Thesis.pdf

referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt

"Other treasures:  Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix
as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
of history up to about 1988."

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12 11:41   ` Jonathan Gray
@ 2022-08-12 16:06     ` Warner Losh
  2022-08-12 16:37       ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-08-12 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Gray; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Paul Ruizendaal, segaloco

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On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:42 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> > Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established
> > > that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to
> optimize
> > > these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not
> appear
> > > in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that
> > > it was not included there either.
> >
> > I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
> > did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
> > 3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
> >
> > Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
> >
> > I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
> > very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)
>
> "Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced
> new IPC mechanisms"
>
> from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
>
> https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pirzada-1988-PhD-Thesis.pdf


But also "Release 4.2 was launched in February 1982 for both the 3B & the
DEC
machines. It contained improvements to the data communications and
networking
software and more mature IPC" though it goes on to say 4.2 was provisional.
5.0
did have more things from CBUNIX: init and getty.

I've also found this:

https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix/c/-H9x36DMOBQ/m/P_G_s9SJBrgJ

"Eventually, UNIX/TS was augmented to have
many of the features present in CB-UNIX (this was done by Roger Faulkner
at Indian Hill, BTL. This, in turn, became the base for UNIX 4.0, which
was never released externally."

This from a supervisor at Columbus...

Warner

referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt
>
> "Other treasures:  Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix
> as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
> that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
> of history up to about 1988."
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12 16:06     ` Warner Losh
@ 2022-08-12 16:37       ` Warner Losh
  2022-08-13 19:51         ` Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-08-12 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Gray; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society, Paul Ruizendaal, segaloco

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On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:06 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:42 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
>> > Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established
>> > > that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to
>> optimize
>> > > these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not
>> appear
>> > > in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather
>> that
>> > > it was not included there either.
>> >
>> > I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
>> > did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
>> > 3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
>> >
>> > I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
>> > very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)
>>
>> "Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced
>> new IPC mechanisms"
>>
>> from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
>>
>> https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pirzada-1988-PhD-Thesis.pdf
>
>
> But also "Release 4.2 was launched in February 1982 for both the 3B & the
> DEC
> machines. It contained improvements to the data communications and
> networking
> software and more mature IPC" though it goes on to say 4.2 was
> provisional. 5.0
> did have more things from CBUNIX: init and getty.
>
> I've also found this:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix/c/-H9x36DMOBQ/m/P_G_s9SJBrgJ
>
> "Eventually, UNIX/TS was augmented to have
> many of the features present in CB-UNIX (this was done by Roger Faulkner
> at Indian Hill, BTL. This, in turn, became the base for UNIX 4.0, which
> was never released externally."
>
> This from a supervisor at Columbus...
>

Oh, see also the message from Guy Harris a few messages previous to the one
that opens up with the above link (minor edits by me):

"
doug_gwyn>The UNIX System V IPC was already present in USG UNIX 4.1.
doug_gwyn>(Not related to 4.1BSD.)

For you real UNIX trivia freaks, the USG 4.0 IPC was different
from the USG 4.1 IPC. The original message send/receive system calls sent
to a process ID; they were changed to send to message queues, which had a
32-bit unique ID, instead (which makes more sense, as it permits you to
transparently replace servers).
"

The note is extensive and goes into a lot of other areas related to IPC and
lists names
and references too.  In fact the whole thread is a good candidate to be
hoisted from
google groups while we have the chance and placed into the TUHS archive. Is
there
a process for that?

Warner


Warner
>
> referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt
>>
>> "Other treasures:  Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix
>> as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
>> that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
>> of history up to about 1988."
>>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12 16:37       ` Warner Losh
@ 2022-08-13 19:51         ` Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS @ 2022-08-13 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, segaloco


Thanks all for those pointers on the lineage of SysV IPC. All highly interesting!

Paul

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12  1:33 segaloco via TUHS
  2022-08-12  2:06 ` G. Branden Robinson
@ 2022-08-12  6:41 ` arnold
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-08-12  6:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs, segaloco

segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> - This documentation refers to the last version as System III rather than
>   making any mention of 4.0.

This is because 4.0 was never released outside the Bell System. When I
did contract programming at Southern Bell, they told me that the practice
was to publicly release one version behind what was running internally;
thus System III was released when they were running 4.0 in the Bell System.

They changed their minds when it came to System V, deciding to release
the current internal version publicly as well.

I also suspect that the System V doc drops all mention of IBM S/370
support for Unix.

HTH,

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-12  1:33 segaloco via TUHS
@ 2022-08-12  2:06 ` G. Branden Robinson
  2022-08-12  6:41 ` arnold
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: G. Branden Robinson @ 2022-08-12  2:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

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At 2022-08-12T01:33:12+0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> - Either the original EQN paper is dropped or relevant bits mashed
> together with the user's guide

V7 Unix shipped sources for both[1] but all typeset versions of the Unix
Programmer's Manual I've seen (both scanned and HRW's physical copies)
omit the white paper.  Having recently undertaken to re-set these with
groff,[2] I surmise that this is because there was already much overlap
in content.  What remained in the white paper was largely the de rigueur
journalese about why this contribution was significant and
scientifically noteworthy.  It may have been felt that paid licensees
already perceived such value.

Regards,
Branden

[1] https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V7/usr/doc/eqn
[2] https://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2022-July/026090.html

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* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
@ 2022-08-12  1:33 segaloco via TUHS
  2022-08-12  2:06 ` G. Branden Robinson
  2022-08-12  6:41 ` arnold
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2022-08-12  1:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

And I've received the documents!  This is a pastebin with the rough contents of the documentation package.

https://pastebin.com/jAqqBXA4

Now for some analysis:

The User's Manual is branded System V but also displays a Western Electric Bell logo.  I've seen Release 5.0 manuals displaying the Bell logo and System V manuals without, but never a System V with.  That implies the publication of the manual had to change a few times, one to switch from internal Release 5.0 to commercial System V and another time to remove the Bell logo due to divestiture.  I would have to wonder if similar transition can be seen with different revisions of these documents?

The Release Description manual has a list of System V relevant documents and they all appear to be accounted for here, so this should represent the wealth of documentation available to a user of System V Gold in 1983.

Most documents are traceable to documents in the Unix 4.0 collection.  I've suffixed various documents here with the coordinate to the same in the 4.0 collection.  Changes of note:

- The System V documentation includes instructions for 3B20S machines as well as the instructions for DEC equipment.  PDP-11 and VAX guidance have been combined into a single document.

- The System V documentation adds documents concerning an "Auto Call" feature.  Didn't see this anywhere in 4.0, so should be new circa System V.

- This documentation refers to the last version as System III rather than making any mention of 4.0.  Given that the specific documents mentioning this are System V-branded, and there are comparable documents that are Release 5.0 branded, this implies there may be a document floating around out there somewhere equivalent to the Release Description manual but that actually covers the transition from 4.0 to 5.0.

- The documentation package drops the updated CACM paper, likely because it's available all sorts of other places.

- The summary and documentation roadmap documents appear to have been synthesized and combined into the Release Description.

- Snyder and Mashey's shell tutorial was either dropped or combined with Bourne's shell introduction

- No evidence of an MM foldout like was distributed with 4.0 (and before, there are sources around implying these foldouts started with the PWB group, may have been printed as early as 1977)

- Either the original EQN paper is dropped or relevant bits mashed together with the user's guide

- EFL documentation seems to be dropped, or is merged into one of the other Fortran documents somewhere down in there.  The processor is still in the man pages though.

- ADB documentation seems to be dropped, likewise still in the manuals, listed as DEC only.  Since System V seems to treat DEC as PDP-11+VAX, does this imply there was a VAX ADB?  My understanding is SDB started on 32V and was *the* debugger for VAX.

- Unix Virtual Protocol papers are dropped, they were marked as 3.0 only in the 4.0 manuals anyhow, so probably not relevant.

- The Standalone I/O Library and SASH (Shell) paper is dropped

- None of the internals nor security papers seem to have made it, so no Unix Implemention, I/O Implementation, PDP and Portable C Compiler Tours, Assembler Manual, PDP-11/23 and 11/34, or Password Security papers.

These will likely be a slower burn than the 4.0 documents since I purchased them myself and am not in a hurry to get them shipped back to someone.  That said, if there's anything in the above pastebin that particularly piques any interest, I can try to move those to the top of the stack and get scans done sooner rather than later.  I'll also be doing some analysis between these and the 4.0 docs to try and better determine authorship of various documents, my hope is to have a pretty clear picture of whos work went into each manual by the time I'm done with it all.

- Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-09 17:16         ` Warner Losh
@ 2022-08-09 17:22           ` Will Senn
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Will Senn @ 2022-08-09 17:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh, segaloco; +Cc: TUHS main list, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Amen to that. Scanning is very difficult to get right and folks that get 
it working well aren't great about making simplified processes 
accessible to others.

Will

On 8/9/22 12:16 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
> Perhaps Al could offer those areas that segaloco could use to 
> improve the scans.
>
> Let's get over the 'presentation' of the issue (which we all are 
> thinking in the back of our minds sucked) and understand how we call 
> can produce better scans without getting overly defensive or 
> protective about it (both reactions don't really help, and frankly 
> aren't fun to read played out in a public list).
>
> Warner
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 9:15 AM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
>     I'm literally the one doing it now.  Got a problem with it? Tough,
>     you're not the one doing *these* documents.  Literally nobody is
>     asking you to take on the magnanimous task of "cleaning them up". 
>     Do it yourself or step aside, but again, don't derail a thread
>     about work I am going to do to lob criticism of work you aren't
>     going to do.  Be childish somewhere else.  Sorry Al is stinking up
>     this thread, this is the last thing I wanted, I'm just contributing.
>
>     - Matt G.
>
>     ------- Original Message -------
>     On Tuesday, August 9th, 2022 at 5:49 AM, Al Kossow
>     <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
>
>
>     > On 8/9/22 12:00 AM, segaloco wrote:
>     >
>     > > Frankly I will scan however I want given I am both paying for
>     the documents myself and scanning them in my own free time.
>     >
>     >
>     > Queue the virtue signaling.
>     >
>     > That is EXACTLY why I sent the rude message.
>     > I spent days cleaning up your scans to meet the bitsavers
>     scanning quality requirements of the
>     > garbage you produced, because you spent a WHOLE DAY scanning them.
>     >
>     > I've been doing this for twenty years, don't talk to me about
>     time or money spent doing this
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-09 15:14       ` segaloco via TUHS
@ 2022-08-09 17:16         ` Warner Losh
  2022-08-09 17:22           ` Will Senn
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-08-09 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: segaloco; +Cc: TUHS main list, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Perhaps Al could offer those areas that segaloco could use to improve the
scans.

Let's get over the 'presentation' of the issue (which we all are thinking
in the back of our minds sucked) and understand how we call can produce
better scans without getting overly defensive or protective about it (both
reactions don't really help, and frankly aren't fun to read played out in a
public list).

Warner

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 9:15 AM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> I'm literally the one doing it now.  Got a problem with it?  Tough, you're
> not the one doing *these* documents.  Literally nobody is asking you to
> take on the magnanimous task of "cleaning them up".  Do it yourself or step
> aside, but again, don't derail a thread about work I am going to do to lob
> criticism of work you aren't going to do.  Be childish somewhere else.
> Sorry Al is stinking up this thread, this is the last thing I wanted, I'm
> just contributing.
>
> - Matt G.
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Tuesday, August 9th, 2022 at 5:49 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> > On 8/9/22 12:00 AM, segaloco wrote:
> >
> > > Frankly I will scan however I want given I am both paying for the
> documents myself and scanning them in my own free time.
> >
> >
> > Queue the virtue signaling.
> >
> > That is EXACTLY why I sent the rude message.
> > I spent days cleaning up your scans to meet the bitsavers scanning
> quality requirements of the
> > garbage you produced, because you spent a WHOLE DAY scanning them.
> >
> > I've been doing this for twenty years, don't talk to me about time or
> money spent doing this
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-09 12:49     ` Al Kossow
@ 2022-08-09 15:14       ` segaloco via TUHS
  2022-08-09 17:16         ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2022-08-09 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Al Kossow; +Cc: TUHS main list, tuhs

I'm literally the one doing it now.  Got a problem with it?  Tough, you're not the one doing *these* documents.  Literally nobody is asking you to take on the magnanimous task of "cleaning them up".  Do it yourself or step aside, but again, don't derail a thread about work I am going to do to lob criticism of work you aren't going to do.  Be childish somewhere else.  Sorry Al is stinking up this thread, this is the last thing I wanted, I'm just contributing.

- Matt G.

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, August 9th, 2022 at 5:49 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:


> On 8/9/22 12:00 AM, segaloco wrote:
>
> > Frankly I will scan however I want given I am both paying for the documents myself and scanning them in my own free time.
>
>
> Queue the virtue signaling.
>
> That is EXACTLY why I sent the rude message.
> I spent days cleaning up your scans to meet the bitsavers scanning quality requirements of the
> garbage you produced, because you spent a WHOLE DAY scanning them.
>
> I've been doing this for twenty years, don't talk to me about time or money spent doing this

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-09  7:00   ` segaloco via TUHS
@ 2022-08-09 12:49     ` Al Kossow
  2022-08-09 15:14       ` segaloco via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Al Kossow @ 2022-08-09 12:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS main list; +Cc: tuhs

On 8/9/22 12:00 AM, segaloco wrote:
> Frankly I will scan however I want given I am both paying for the documents myself and scanning them in my own free time.

Queue the virtue signaling.

That is EXACTLY why I sent the rude message.
I spent days cleaning up your scans to meet the bitsavers scanning quality requirements of the
garbage you produced, because you spent a WHOLE DAY scanning them.

I've been doing this for twenty years, don't talk to me about time or money spent doing this

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-09  0:37 ` Al Kossow
@ 2022-08-09  7:00   ` segaloco via TUHS
  2022-08-09 12:49     ` Al Kossow
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2022-08-09  7:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Al Kossow; +Cc: tuhs

Frankly I will scan however I want given I am both paying for the documents myself and scanning them in my own free time.  You can take your elitism elsewhere rather than offering unsolicited criticism of work you aren't even going to do.

Please keep this thread on topic, contribute or don't.

- Matt G.

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, August 8th, 2022 at 5:37 PM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:


> On 8/8/22 4:52 PM, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
>
> > I didn't expect to have more documents to share this soon, but I've just secured a trove of early System V/5.0 documents
>
>
> Hopefully, you've learned something about scanning and won't produce the same shit scans you dumped on IA

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
  2022-08-08 23:52 segaloco via TUHS
@ 2022-08-09  0:37 ` Al Kossow
  2022-08-09  7:00   ` segaloco via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Al Kossow @ 2022-08-09  0:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On 8/8/22 4:52 PM, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> I didn't expect to have more documents to share this soon, but I've just secured a trove of early System V/5.0 documents

Hopefully, you've learned something about scanning and won't produce the same shit scans you dumped on IA


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections
@ 2022-08-08 23:52 segaloco via TUHS
  2022-08-09  0:37 ` Al Kossow
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: segaloco via TUHS @ 2022-08-08 23:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

I didn't expect to have more documents to share this soon, but I've just secured a trove of early System V/5.0 documents, as listed:

System V User's Manual
System V Administrator's Manual
System V Error Message Manual
System V Transition Aids
System V Release Description

User's Guide
Operator's Guide
Administrator's Guide
Programming Guide
Graphics Guide
Support Tools Guide
Document Processing Guide

The System V-prefixed ones are very specifically labeled System V, although I know at least of the User's and Administrator's Manuals with "Release 5.0" branding out in the wild as well.  I've got two of the User's Manuals exhibiting this difference.  I believe I've seen a scan of the Admin's Manual with 5.0 as well, but I would have to go searching for it, it's on bitsavers perhaps?  In any case, this is the documentation series for the initial releases of System V, the ones with "UNIX System" in big letters with grid patterns fading out into the background.  I don't know if the second set is considered part of the Release 5.0 or System V version of the document package, or if they made that distinction, but as of present I can positively identify the first 5 as being specifically for the System V version of this release.  What is particularly curious is there are documents displaying "System V" but with a Western Electric logo on the front.  I've seen a scan of a System V gold User's Manual with the logo removed and a disclaimer on the front page explaining that they can't use the Bell logo anymore due to the divestiture, likewise on bitsavers I'm pretty sure, so this may establish that there were at least three revisions: Release 5.0, System V pre-divestiture, and System V post-divestiture.

Now for a little plug, just because she's been so incredibly helpful, I bought these from Leslie (last name unknown) known as "oldmaddogshop" on eBay.  We got chatting for a little while and her husband was a computing professor at the University of Portland for some time as it sounds, and they're currently starting to go through the decades of literature and hardware he's picked up over the years for sale on eBay and perhaps other avenues.  She very specifically mentioned a PDP-8 that he happens to have that he's hoping they can coordinate to donate to a museum or some other way to get it into a relatively publicly accessible space rather than winding up in the closet of a private collector.  I told her I'd drop a brief mention in letting folks know about the documents in case they'd want the option of perusing some of what they're going to be offloading.  She made mention of a stack of USENIX manuals as well, I have a smattering of 4.2 and 4.3 manuals already, so someone may be lucky enough to snag those soon enough.  Up currently are an early SVID and some OSF/Motif stuff, but she said they've got plenty of boxes of books to go through.

Anywho, once I receive these documents, I plan on starting the scanning process much like with the UNIX/TS 4.0 stuff, and will be in touch with Warren concerning hosting and a release as time goes on.  One bit of input if anyone knows, does the above list represent (aside from Release 5.0 variants) the complete documentation package for System V gold?  I can't say I've come across any other titles, and most certainly haven't seen PDFs of anything that isn't included here, but I see plenty of titles I've never seen scanned.  If nothing else, I'm hoping that "Release Description" document may have a brief flyover of the published materials, akin to the list of books at the beginning of the SVR4 manuals or the documentation roadmaps of earlier UNIX/TS and PWB releases.

- Matt G.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-08-13 19:52 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-08-12 11:01 [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
2022-08-12 11:15 ` arnold
2022-08-12 11:41   ` Jonathan Gray
2022-08-12 16:06     ` Warner Losh
2022-08-12 16:37       ` Warner Losh
2022-08-13 19:51         ` Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-08-12  1:33 segaloco via TUHS
2022-08-12  2:06 ` G. Branden Robinson
2022-08-12  6:41 ` arnold
2022-08-08 23:52 segaloco via TUHS
2022-08-09  0:37 ` Al Kossow
2022-08-09  7:00   ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-08-09 12:49     ` Al Kossow
2022-08-09 15:14       ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-08-09 17:16         ` Warner Losh
2022-08-09 17:22           ` Will Senn

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