The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb@tfeb.org>
To: Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] core
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:33:57 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5808F9AB-0860-457B-BA04-4DBD67B5ACFB@tfeb.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <24E1059F-F3ED-45EE-915E-6F32EFBAFA50@tfeb.org>


> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:33, Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> When you say "if implementation of the specification is too complicated it
> will fail", I think you mean 'the specification is so complex that _any_
> implementation must _necessarily_ be so complex that all the implementations,
> and thus the specification itself, will fail'?

Yes, except that I don't think the specification itself has to be complex, it just needs to require implementations be hard, computationally expensive, or both.  For instance a specification for integer arithmetic in a programming language which required that (a/b)*b be a except where b is zero isn't complicated, I think, but it requires implementations which are either hard, computationally-expensive or both.

> 
> And for "in which case the specification which allowed the simple
> implementation will eventually become a problem", I think that's part of your
> saying 'you get to pick your poison; either the spec is so complicated it
> fails right away, or if it's simple enough to succeed in the short term, it
> will neccessarily fail in the long term'?

Yes, with the above caveat about the spec not needing to be complicated, and I'd say something like 'become limiting in the long term' rather than 'fail in the long term'.

So I think your idea was that, if there's a choice between a do-the-right-thing, future-proof (variable-length-address field) solution  or a will-work-for-now, implementationally-simpler (fixed-length) solution, then you should do the right thing, because if the thing fails it makes no odds and if it succeeds then you will regret the second solution. My caveat is that success (in the sense of wide adoption) is not independent of which solution you pick, and in particular that will-work-for-now solutions are much more likely to succeed than do-the-right-thing ones.

As I said, I don't know whether this applies to IP.

--tim

  reply	other threads:[~2018-06-18 15:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-17 17:58 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-18  9:16 ` Tim Bradshaw
2018-06-18 15:33   ` Tim Bradshaw [this message]
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2018-06-21 22:44 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2018-06-21 23:07 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2018-06-21 23:38   ` Toby Thain
2018-06-21 17:40 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-21 17:07 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2018-06-21 13:46 Doug McIlroy
2018-06-21 16:13 ` Tim Bradshaw
2018-06-20 20:11 Doug McIlroy
2018-06-20 23:53 ` Tim Bradshaw
2018-06-19 12:23 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-19 12:58 ` Clem Cole
2018-06-19 13:53   ` John P. Linderman
2018-06-21 14:09 ` Paul Winalski
2018-06-19 11:50 Doug McIlroy
     [not found] <20180618121738.98BD118C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
2018-06-18 21:13 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-06-18 17:56 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-18 18:51 ` Clem Cole
2018-06-18 14:51 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-18 14:58 ` Warner Losh
     [not found] <mailman.1.1529287201.13697.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-06-18  5:58 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-06-18 12:39   ` Ronald Natalie
2018-06-17 21:18 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-17 14:36 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-17 15:58 ` Derek Fawcus
2018-06-16 22:57 Noel Chiappa
     [not found] <mailman.1.1529175600.3826.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2018-06-16 22:14 ` Johnny Billquist
2018-06-16 22:38   ` Arthur Krewat
2018-06-17  0:15   ` Clem cole
2018-06-17  1:50     ` Johnny Billquist
2018-06-17 10:33       ` Ronald Natalie
2018-06-20 16:55       ` Paul Winalski
2018-06-20 21:35         ` Johnny Billquist
2018-06-20 22:24           ` Paul Winalski
2018-06-16 13:49 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-16 14:10 ` Clem Cole
2018-06-16 14:34   ` Lawrence Stewart
2018-06-16 15:28     ` Larry McVoy
2018-06-16 14:10 ` Steve Nickolas
2018-06-16 14:13   ` William Pechter
2018-06-16 13:37 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-16 18:59 ` Clem Cole
2018-06-17 12:15 ` Derek Fawcus
2018-06-17 17:33 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-06-17 19:50   ` Jon Forrest
2018-06-18 14:56   ` Clem Cole
2018-06-18 12:36 ` Tony Finch
2018-06-16 12:58 Doug McIlroy
2018-06-20 11:10 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-06-16 12:51 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-16 13:11 ` Clem cole
2018-06-15 15:25 Noel Chiappa
2018-06-15 23:05 ` Dave Horsfall
2018-06-15 23:22   ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2018-06-16  6:36     ` Dave Horsfall
2018-06-16 19:07       ` Clem Cole
2018-06-18  9:25         ` Tim Bradshaw
2018-06-19 20:45           ` Peter Jeremy
2018-06-19 22:55             ` David Arnold
2018-06-20  5:04               ` Peter Jeremy
2018-06-20  5:41                 ` Warner Losh
2018-06-15 11:19 A. P. Garcia
2018-06-15 13:50 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2018-06-15 14:21 ` Clem Cole
2018-06-15 15:11   ` John P. Linderman
2018-06-15 15:21     ` Larry McVoy
2018-06-16  1:08   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2018-06-16  2:00     ` Nemo Nusquam
2018-06-16  2:17     ` John P. Linderman
2018-06-16  3:06     ` Clem cole
2018-06-20 10:06 ` Dave Horsfall

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=5808F9AB-0860-457B-BA04-4DBD67B5ACFB@tfeb.org \
    --to=tfb@tfeb.org \
    --cc=jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu \
    --cc=tuhs@tuhs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).