From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id f83c04de for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 20:48:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D900B9C10F; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:48:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A2E9BDD8; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:48:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5DEF49BDD8; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:48:24 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 461 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:48:23 AEST Received: from kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (kvm5.telegraphics.com.au [98.124.60.144]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34BFE9BD25 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:48:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [10.210.249.17] (unknown [10.210.249.17]) by kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01C923EC1; Sat, 18 Jan 2020 15:40:41 -0500 (EST) To: Adam Thornton , The Eunuchs Historic Society References: From: Toby Thain Autocrypt: addr=toby@telegraphics.com.au; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFVqRckBCACdUBQ565VYFZgKu+JjAeV2T/QIITeO+kPhViKuWooJADKB0Xra+AUSilML bmLYIPE1ZAWU3b12q0IxofU9wLe2AyQ/KIrUN891Fydhdsg6xVXRITrDobHUTyMQ8KlXMXO4 zsUq5TtlNkNbHOw6WCyoRpWUYJ1otpWVnjKLJFsvbSgtdjn2fZOLHL00wjZL+oYsFcx7aiYg bRQ7oO7nnDz7NyM/gsGWJazFLpZs1tuJSjR/ruYHCqyCa3VX1FaquVrHPkOWg0D5npDaSCWX 3OgbrarP75l43DLBuROuSJkZvLs41jrkhFeFSik2nZUwiSZWzsWAUMGMGCbGU2LljArzABEB AAG0L1RvYnkgVGhhaW4gKE1hYyBQcm8pIDx0b2J5QHRlbGVncmFwaGljcy5jb20uYXU+iQFP BBMBAgA5AhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBAVB4kPONsxSK13M05k7tV74 aS2yBQJb7srkAAoJEJk7tV74aS2yhZ0IAIB0xPUNyDPf0euMXBV6c0Of0DF7Xvg/z3322jWP sHSyIcv2+Th4cByNjUC/IdMmwLWLKGclN/t8arDLl2UaT3FgPUCZLHP+SYgtkdyw4iXhByD4 wl8E23IU08tq9MouO9IQ9PJs0szkBS/HorAaK1dHt01HyuF72Batb6RTtvNYz4LIr6ECwgAS geRSt1olUds3pXPgwZYD/l4NAJOwDuKTtNGo0867zUn82703wWnLC4BupvcMs31jI4GJU6Nl wuVEpo3KQbaEJiaddTGkMGwOlSaPaDc6/6bl62X0LmJL9JCDefudqJEe23HjQVrwqZbJ6hZG vgLmjwH8SKAl/xG5AQ0EVWpFyQEIALgVpxkG/EwDLpu3l3qPGzwdoUVh1ciunWc8N7h4n+0y H90BtCjhDR96tOpfCDOpNA9iazOHdSPDaoufEdvbSZCAAFZwOom6xVKMv0SnYB7CPXdVrb7K F9PgJlQ1LKKapCQYsOAaOb3V1nNfz8UvU0o7CUUa6ko/DCCR9+QiqsrPbErS4L4RbU4yuxcb 1rE0g83fiom/ypG/2z+6d0z8HX5oG6PLqpbAJ56a+UtGDMFvpKVkI8au93YMDCyUa8KGgsfc GWpVaxab8YkJOIgpEEaPRa5meo/UFFxfF8SmIoSiHfrMbNx83Vl0FCexuoKhNOOF2A3F+q+D i+5Q7TtkHMkAEQEAAYkBHwQYAQIACQUCVWpFyQIbDAAKCRCZO7Ve+Gktso0VB/0cNfygjw1u k/JE/xIa0D+oD+lYhjIS40v9aazGmwihGjZi29YWw6njh60j8eUu8FSmB2Rl1eLWGTG2TGz9 u3gOHpniymeeFAWPqRUVJRHRSeDxdJaV7Nx3KGysjeTj2IRHA7gU2SHClrWFZ0g5Vy75oOCk 2VeCNC7kN7PemGIlgu4zOqDDX/jUlrUoUAqTaoT4MAQNuG8dyLyE3sfrC4n7qbG1TxUGTXuS LFphJQSDcvn0WAdolwTZ3YT8cwq2KrQDbmESg425J8cdqmaMI5mJgucWf4tmAEMyjde1jRYh oQDyMgQXXY/+QvS5a7dpz4l9UZwz1bXTr32jJ/+UKrHM Message-ID: <58b728c7-2605-2418-df97-50bfea85bc46@telegraphics.com.au> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 15:40:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] Distributed systems, was: On the origins of Linux - "an academic question" X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2020-01-18 3:24 PM, Adam Thornton wrote: > > >> On Jan 17, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Rob Pike wrote: >> >> I am convinced that large-scale modern compute centers would be run very differently, with fewer or at least lesser problems, if they were treated as a single system rather than as a bunch of single-user computers ssh'ed together. >> >> But history had other ideas. > > So I’ve clearly got a dog in this fight (https://athornton.github.io/Tucson-Python-Dec-2019/ et al. (also mostly at athornton.github.io)) but I feel like Kubernetes is an interesting compromise in that space. > > Admittedly, I come to this not only from a Unix/Linux background but an IBM VM background, but: > > 1) containerization is a necessary but not sufficient first step Exactly. > 2) black magic to handle the internal networking and endpoint exposure through fairly simple configuration on the user’s part is essential > 3) abstractions to describe resources (the current enumerated-objects quota stuff is clunky but sufficient; the CPU/Memory quota stuff is fine), and > 4) an automated lifecycle manager Right, I think we use the terms "orchestration", "service discovery", etc. --T > > taken together give you a really nifty platform for defining complex applications via composition, which (IMHO) is one of the fundamental wins of Unix, although in this case, it’s really _not_ very analogous to plugging pipeline stages together. > > Note that _running_ Kubernetes is still a pain, so unless running data centers is your job, just rent capacity from someone else’s managed Kubernetes service. > > Adam >