From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20283 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2023 17:48:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jan 2023 17:48:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DB442485; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 03:48:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F17442483 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2023 03:48:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from makerlispvps ([74.208.29.250]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lw33b-1okqZr30Kz-017kJI for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2023 18:48:34 +0100 Received: from [192.168.234.128] (unknown [172.58.76.132]) by makerlispvps (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 362AF885A3 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2023 17:48:34 +0000 (UTC) To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> <528f0c53-ccc2-88a1-5a7b-120362c648dd@mhorton.net> <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> From: Luther Johnson Message-ID: <59004a29-5119-9dd9-c248-518b8c4e7928@makerlisp.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:48:32 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ilFflWiywV/W/ZTso9zkVgduyu3/owIXE4iHgLwlWfb86m3Wjlt 5oTUrsD2pP/OZtCDHpW3AY2Y3UUPX04ZLtVYJozYed/VqCa+L17I2sncqTFRmglXIymb3xV CwBenJ3migvYrXjlRmkZ+uPoDJN4v/7yK0oghPCKxZ1QSdFeJpZ/GhD5mf/ufN0JSlOPULt o6JqMO3PFnHPn6djNpeHg== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:OWX2iZxbRbw=;+owsDxpB6eAVdC1cxdv5ql5Fy6U 7s4IwyYdpsCqq4CxvSPYAEkoE3NJpGLbqO6eIqhsk3X4PcoJS8P+z7ElR4JLXpqI+SO4fwe4O ZniWTc9OR/RQ3rFrcN+XTTHu+2NR/cWqZK3TTnhZEx0qYsZZdt/rPDnKJYHqShEBXPDnJc+qn 9M8gU80fjTsQ2jwkM8kpEd9uXhcJGaknn2VEXqkbmSHUp+nyYipIqJgApD9/qIbmcY+JvFqPt f1fz7Qx6w7FhSCP2sUUW28Q1XcV6WBumSUyKJp5QHICV1tzgN9RfFOyq5dyVMlR+8JlXtI6af OLeA+EKzBwyolCIj515wd+7+LdLysl10UG7VGM98FQoTzbaQlypDlsXUzUQwA90z6zULnkbkL 6FwPhmdR/Oz8wf2Jzo6Lhm25hk3IwGxwdtfqh+qHU9xOl3+7W8LS3fWejuK9viOuHQoCXm1KW mvwIWrZTMPN4U5KFF0noCSffrJwu50zlyPwtxjnlitW3PECuYB4vnol7/wjEoOF9uVUAE4iCy ptfPWEqzdEC8RJblneBSiicAhwE6d4aWOLekLjsOivnQ5oEYP7/Pdd8cR+KROW5GthJOrNDDv pjF+cnZz4g88Yy/9YErVQzBTV0VMMpIOj6g06ZKlBrJoM1OaKN9OzKDc1RW0eoiOrKK2/x46g 2gVouh0e9F4vUZfqSzG+FW8LiexfZs/rEeGvl2khMg== Message-ID-Hash: U4IP6CBUXJ4HM7NI5CXCCUZZNSYJJXOW X-Message-ID-Hash: U4IP6CBUXJ4HM7NI5CXCCUZZNSYJJXOW X-MailFrom: luther@makerlisp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Arnold Schoenberg said of his 12-tone method of music composition, "in constraints I find freedom". The best thing about committing to a simple style and a small set of tools that span the problem space, is the effect it has on my program composition, imho. On 01/02/2023 10:43 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Mon, Jan 02, 2023 at 10:32:50AM -0700, Adam Thornton wrote: >> But of course the "after it had had a few years to settle" is doing >> a lot of lifting there. During the Unix Wars, yeah, clearly using >> v7 sh as lowest-common-denominator was the right choice. After the >> establishment of Linux Hegemony sometime in the early 2000s, I think I >> remember that you could pretty much count on everyone at least providing >> a POSIX shell, even if it wasn't the default. (But of course by then, >> "everyone" that wasn't Linux or OS X was already down to more-or-less Sun, >> IBM, HP, and DEC/Compaq.) > I was supporting a commercial product in the early 2000's and there > were all sorts of systems then that had old shells. Yes, you could make > everything a 2 level thing where the first level finds the correct shell, > but that's just fuss. Just make things portable, it's not that hard > and it works everywhere. > > When you get to the commercial world, you'd be stunned to see how long > old machines last. If they are solving some problem, and they aren't > broken, nobody replaces them. I'll bet you anything there are still > SCO registers out there, I'll bet there are still PDP-11s out there. > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. >