> From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> > At least 30 years ago I said "He's good programmer, a good architect, > and a good manager. I've never seen that in one person before". Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him operating in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager (although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); he took over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is high on all three - he could manage me! :-) Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay - not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though. Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a architect. I think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the variable size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, that day; I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that if I'd been there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior alternative - 'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.) Noel PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are: - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the Multics System Development" https://multicians.org/managerial.html - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics -- the first seven years" https://multicians.org/f7y.html
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2405 bytes --] I'd certainly list Bob Sproull for all three, from personal observation. My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960. ===== nygeek.net mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote: > > From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> > > > At least 30 years ago I said "He's good programmer, a good architect, > > and a good manager. I've never seen that in one person before". > > Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him > operating > in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some > insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager > (although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th > floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); he took > over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is high on > all three - he could manage me! :-) > > Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I > know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay > - > not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to > manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though. > > Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a > architect. I > think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the > variable > size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in > TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, that > day; > I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that if I'd > been > there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior alternative - > 'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.) > > Noel > > PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers > from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are: > > - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the Multics > System Development" > https://multicians.org/managerial.html > - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics -- the > first seven years" > https://multicians.org/f7y.html > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3587 bytes --]
Not trying to keep AIX in the discussion, but the 3 in 1 list should include Glenn Henry. Glenn was primarily a manager when I worked for him, but was an architect before then and is still a programmer -- see the summary at http://web.archive.org/web/20200105071617/http://www.ece.utexas.edu/events/centaur-technologys-deep-learning-coprocessor-technology and/or https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102738382 Charlie On 1/19/2023 12:00 PM, Marc Donner wrote: > I'd certainly list Bob Sproull for all three, from personal observation. > > My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still > programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order > to implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960. > ===== > nygeek.net <http://nygeek.net> > mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home> > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu > <mailto:jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>> wrote: > > > From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com <mailto:lm@mcvoy.com>> > > > At least 30 years ago I said "He's good programmer, a good > architect, > > and a good manager. I've never seen that in one person before". > > Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him > operating > in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some > insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager > (although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th > floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); > he took > over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is > high on > all three - he could manage me! :-) > > Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. > Yes, I > know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, > Alan Kay - > not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he > had to > manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though. > > Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a > architect. I > think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the > variable > size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in > TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, > that day; > I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that > if I'd been > there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior > alternative - > 'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.) > > Noel > > PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers > from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are: > > - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the > Multics System Development" > https://multicians.org/managerial.html > <https://multicians.org/managerial.html> > - F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics -- > the first seven years" > https://multicians.org/f7y.html <https://multicians.org/f7y.html> > -- voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ Facebook/Google/Twitter: CharlesHSauer
>
> Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I
> know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay -
> not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to
> manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though.
>
Taylor was an extraordinary manager, but neither a programmer nor architect.
I’d certainly add Vic Vyssotsky as manager and technologist from my own experience
and labs folklore, but I don’t know about programming or architecture.
-Larry
> My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still
> programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to
> implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960.
I don't know whether Sutherland invented the linked list, but if he
did, it had to be before he worked on sketchpad. I attended a lecture
about Lisp in 1959 in which McCarthy credited list-processing to
IPL-V, whose roots Newell places in 1954. Sketchpad ran on TX 0, which
became operational in 1956.
My nomination for a triple-threat computer guy is Vic Vyssotsky. A
great programmer, he invented the first stream-processing language
(BLODI) and bitwise-parallel dataflow analysis. As an architect, he
invented the single underlying address space for multics. As a
manager, he oversaw the building of and later ran the lab that became
AT&T Research. Finally he founded the DEC Cambridge Lab. He was a
subtle diplomat, too, who more than once engineered reversals of
policy without ruffling feathers.
Relative to linked lists, I remember Vic perceptively touting the then
startling usage J=NEXT(J).in Fortran.
Doug
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 418 bytes --] On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 1:01 PM Marc Donner <marc.donner@gmail.com> wrote: > My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still > programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to > implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960. > 1963, which makes it younger than Lisp (McCarthy 1960) and IPL (Newell, Shaw, Simon 1957), the original list-processing languages. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1036 bytes --]
Pioneering Apple Lisa goes “open source” thanks to Computer History Museum Lisa OS 3.1's 1984 source Pascal code now available under a non-commercial license. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/01/pioneering-apple-lisa-goes-open-source-thanks-to-computer-history-museum/ CHM MAKES APPLE LISA SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AS A PART OF ITS ART OF CODE SERIES https://computerhistory.org/press-releases/chm-makes-apple-lisa-source-code-available-to-the-public-as-a-part-of-its-art-of-code-series/ -r
Nothing about the LISA OS or the subsequent MAC XL (extra large? extra
Lisas in inventory?) is remotely UNIXy.
------ Original Message ------
From "Rich Morin" <rdm@cfcl.com>
To "Tautological Eunuch Horticultural Scythians" <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Date 1/20/2023 11:54:07 AM
Subject [TUHS] FYI: Apple Lisa [source Pascal code] goes “open source”
>Pioneering Apple Lisa goes “open source” thanks to Computer History Museum
>Lisa OS 3.1's 1984 source Pascal code now available under a non-commercial license.
>https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/01/pioneering-apple-lisa-goes-open-source-thanks-to-computer-history-museum/
>
>CHM MAKES APPLE LISA SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AS A PART OF ITS ART OF CODE SERIES
>https://computerhistory.org/press-releases/chm-makes-apple-lisa-source-code-available-to-the-public-as-a-part-of-its-art-of-code-series/
>
>-r
>