From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: imp@bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 21:32:13 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Unix taste (Re: terminal - just for fun) In-Reply-To: References: <1407183693.25672.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> Message-ID: <5B476BA2-EA8F-4443-9DA9-A4AA231C28F4@bsdimp.com> On Aug 4, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Andy Kosela wrote: > On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 5:24 PM, A. P. Garcia wrote: >> >> On Aug 4, 2014 3:22 PM, "Norman Wilson" wrote: >> >> >> >> >>> Everything has gotten more complicated. Some of the complexity >>> involves reasonable tradeoffs (the move toward replacing binary >>> interfaces with readable text where space and time are nowhere >>> near critical, like the /proc and /sys trees in modern Linux). >> >> >> To digress from the main topic, I realize that's just one example, but >> here's a counterpoint to it: >> >> We in Solaris designed /proc as a tool for developers to build innovative >> solutions, not an end-user interface. The Linux community believes that 'cat >> /proc/self/maps' is the best user interface, while we believe that pmap(1) >> is right answer. The reason for this is that mdb(1), truss(1), dtrace(1M) >> and a host of other tools all make use of this same information. It would be >> a waste of time to take binary information in the kernel, convert it to >> text, and then have the userland components all write their own (error >> prone) parsing routines to convert this information back into a custom >> binary form. Plus, we can change the options and output format of pmap >> without breaking other applications that depend on the contents of /proc. >> >> [ https://blogs.oracle.com/eschrock/entry/the_power_of_proc] > > Interestingly, we at FreeBSD got rid of /proc in favor of procstat(1) > and ptrace(2). I am still not too sure if it was the Right Thing(r) > to do though. The decision was more based on the premise that > procfs(4) was neglected in recent years than on anything else[0]. > > [0] http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Why-is-procfs-deprecated-in-favor-of-procstat-td4028960.html FreeBSD also chose to export most nuggets of data from the kernel that are covered by /proc in linux via sysctls. This is one reason that /proc suffered atrophy in the system: nothing was really using it. One could debate at length the relative merits of each, but the long-term viability of both in their respective system I think shows more that the parts that people use are made to work, with warts well known and tolerated, rather than any one form being purer than the other. Warner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 842 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: