From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28726 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2021 16:56:07 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 Jun 2021 16:56:07 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0109A93D39; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 02:56:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1DD93D1B; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 02:55:42 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="key not found in DNS" (0-bit key; unprotected) header.d=humeweb.com header.i=@humeweb.com header.b="SiU91ojn"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0F46793D1B; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 02:55:40 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 1500 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 02:55:39 AEST Received: from gateway5.unifiedlayer.com (gateway5.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.28.84]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59F3693D06 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 02:55:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cm6.websitewelcome.com (unknown [108.167.139.19]) by gateway5.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D964200C88AF for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:08:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dallas136.arvixeshared.com ([23.91.70.4]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id rNETlLWVxYMZhrNETljiEq; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:08:37 -0500 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=humeweb.com ; s=default; h=References:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Date:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Message-Id:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+a/8fUR56N5W5x9FRT5AoG+W60vDvlLC69VLcU3iojw=; b=SiU91ojnmSnMWXFFwA2aHvpGIS 2GV17+7bkSKh6SrVccof7Fu2d5fmjuk2EEglGVTD8rwv7FF5nCFm1CiSgiXmWCt1ZW13h4OLgaetY gNTI68QZiz/7OnUx6CUPfTSjB9WeUNqzH2KGpEyug/Wux0nEHnYevk1LTYnDMs0vYE/A=; Received: from 99-98-248-85.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net ([99.98.248.85]:49931 helo=[192.168.2.77]) by dallas136.arvixeshared.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1lrNES-003RQ4-Tk; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:08:37 -0500 From: Andrew Hume Message-Id: <5C5352B2-0CD4-4C9A-8CDF-81363FB26E85@humeweb.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2C862AF0-E6CD-4C5C-B474-402A145D91D9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 09:08:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: Clem Cole References: <202106100758.15A7weqm013326@freefriends.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - dallas136.arvixeshared.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - minnie.tuhs.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - humeweb.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 99.98.248.85 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1lrNES-003RQ4-Tk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: 99-98-248-85.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net ([192.168.2.77]) [99.98.248.85]:49931 X-Source-Auth: andrew@humeweb.com X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: YWh1bWU7YWh1bWU7ZGFsbGFzMTM2LmFydml4ZXNoYXJlZC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Subject: Re: [TUHS] System IV X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_2C862AF0-E6CD-4C5C-B474-402A145D91D9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 i will simply observe that when i joined bell labs in 1981, i was on the = System III team. we certainly did internal releases under that name.. > On Jun 10, 2021, at 9:05 AM, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 3:59 AM > wrote: > System III had been released to the world. When I asked why AT&T > hadn't released Unix 4.0, I was told that the policy was to release > one version behind what was being run internally. > I was under that impression - I had referred to it in my message as = the 'pre-Judge Green release rules.'=20 >=20 > After the Bell System break up (1/1/1984), AT&T decided to just > release what was current, thus the jump to System V, with "System IV" > never having gotten outside the Bell System. > Right. > =20 > There was also a screen editor, named 'se' (NOT related to the Georgia > Tech 'se' editor) which they'd managed to shoehorn onto the '11. > It was kinda cool. I used both it and 'ed'. vi was also available but > I found the modal stuff weird and didn't end up learning it until a = year > or two later. :-) > I remember seeing se -- Brian Redman showed it to me IIRC. I never = tried using it myself. I remember that he was not happy that it was not = vi. If I recall the argument in USG was many of the BSD tools were not = better or even as good as what USG had already created. But the USG = folks did eventually add some of them to their stream because so many = internal sites were already using them. In particular, v, csh and col = -- but there were others too and the argument was we have those tools = covered already i.e. pg vs. more or se vs. vi >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hope this is of interest. > Definitely -- thank you. >=20 > Clem=20 > =E1=90=A7 > =E1=90=A7 --Apple-Mail=_2C862AF0-E6CD-4C5C-B474-402A145D91D9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 i = will simply observe that when i joined bell labs in 1981, i was on the = System III team. we certainly did internal releases under that name..

On Jun 10, 2021, at 9:05 AM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> = wrote:



On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 3:59 AM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
System III had been released to the world.  When I asked why = AT&T
hadn't released Unix 4.0, I was told that the policy was to release
one version behind what was being run internally.
I was under that = impression - I had referred to it in my message as the 'pre-Judge Green = release rules.' 

After the Bell System break up = (1/1/1984), AT&T decided to just
release what was current, thus the jump to System V, with "System IV"
never having gotten outside the Bell System.
Right.
 
There was also a screen editor, named 'se' (NOT related to the = Georgia
Tech 'se' editor) which they'd managed to shoehorn onto the '11.
It was kinda cool. I used both it and 'ed'. vi was also available but
I found the modal stuff weird and didn't end up learning it until a = year
or two later. :-)
I remember seeing se -- = Brian Redman showed it to me IIRC.  I never tried using it = myself.  I remember that he was not happy that it was not vi.  =  If I recall the argument in = USG was many of the BSD tools = were not better or even as good as what USG had already created.  = But the USG folks did eventually add some of them to their = stream because so many internal sites were already using = them.  In particular, v, csh = and col -- but there were others too and the argument was we have = those tools covered already i.e. pg vs. more or se vs. = vi

  
=

Hope this is of interest.
Definitely -- thank you.

Clem <= /div>
3D""=E1=90=A7
=
3D""=E1=90=A7<= /div>

= --Apple-Mail=_2C862AF0-E6CD-4C5C-B474-402A145D91D9--